Hi, everyone. It's Anne Duffy and welcome to the Just DeW It podcast. I'm so happy you're here with us today. And I have a very special guest, Mrs. Amy Kluesner. It's so nice to see you and to have you on this podcast. But before we get started, let me tell our listeners a little bit about you.
Anne: Amy Kluesner is an attorney based in the Atlanta office of Barnes and Thornburg LLP, a full service law firm with over 800 legal professionals throughout 23 offices as an experienced deal lawyer, which I love that. Amy is valued for her responsiveness. Tactful negotiation skills while focusing on business objectives and regulatory compliance.
She's particularly adept at providing outside general counsel services to growing companies, including mergers and acquisitions in the dental and healthcare space. Amy Klausner, welcome to the
Amy: Thank you for having me very much.
Anne: You are so welcome. It's so fun because your article is in our summer edition of Dental Entrepreneur Woman that is the one that has Stephanie Goddard on our cover and CEO of Glidewell.
So it's a very powerful woman's issue, which they all are. Yes. But I love that we started the issue with Stephanie and we wrapped it up with Amy the very end of that edition, which was reading it right before we got on
again. And oh my God, it's so powerful. Your story where you've been, you know, we have a lot in common and now you're landing in this new law firm, which is really cool.
And You know, I'm just really excited to have this conversation because I think, with dues dental for women, where a lot of us are, have LLCs and we have, our company and we don't think that we actually need an attorney, side. And the fact that, you're one of us, Amy, as I was reading your article, again today, I'm thinking, okay, I'm going to be reaching out to you.
Cause I've got a couple of questions and I need some help. And I'm like well, who better, but someone that understands women in dentistry. Yes. The trials tribulations of not only being a professional woman, but also being a mom, a sister, a daughter. Yes. A wife, a friend. All of those things.
Yes. Talk a little bit about you. First of all, did Notre Dame win? Did, who did? Who did they play on? S They did not.
Amy: They lost to Louisville. They lost. They didn't. It was, It was rather brutal. We made a lot of mistakes, and yeah, that'll get you, you know, I swear I enjoy college football.
there's lots of good life lessons there. Oh my God. Sometimes you make the good decision. Sometimes you think, Oh man, I should have done that differently or, but yeah they fell short. So our season is pretty much, you know, now we just got to. Hope we can make it to a good bowl game at this point.
Oh,
Anne: my gosh. Well, I have to call my sister because I know that my brother in law is from what is it? Bend? Oh, South Bend. Bend. Excuse me. South Bend. Oh he, lives and breathes Notre Dame. So, sorry that they lost, but you know, they, can't win all the
Amy: time.
That's right. No, you cannot, only Georgia and Alabama went all the time. I
Anne: know it. Well, Look, we've got a little, well, you have a little Georgia connection as well, I believe. Right? Yes.
Amy: Our youngest son was born here in Georgia and he told us on Saturday, we said, are you going to cheer for Notre Dame?
And he said, no, I'm cheering for the Georgia Bulldogs. So he turned out to be the smarter one of the bunch this
Anne: weekend. Oh, wait a minute. Back up a second. I didn't follow it Saturday because I was traveling home from the ADA. So did they play Georgia on Saturday? No,
Amy: they played Louisville. Oh, that's right.
You said Louisville. Yeah. Yeah, Georgia played Kentucky and had a very decisive victory. I think they scored 51 or 52 points or something. So you're right.
Anne: Yeah.
Amy: Yeah. They're legit.
Anne: They're legit. I'm glad the beginning of this podcast for women is all about Notre Dame football and Georgia
Amy: football.
I'm sure our viewers are. Yeah.
Anne: But the neat thing about football right now is that Taylor Swift. Games and I think you know hey Let's bring it on ladies. Come on.
Amy: Yeah. It's very exciting. Mostly because, you know, it's kind of nice that she might be finding love. She's such a lovely person and so talented.
So it'd be nice to see her.
Anne: I know. And I also think she's bringing a seat to the table for women. I think that's pretty cool as well. Go Taylor. We're going to give her honor. Go Taylor. Yeah. I love it. But if you're a busy mom, you've got children, you've got a husband, you've you've moved around, you moved law firms, you gotta be crazy busy.
So I, went for our readers. Like If you're thinking about going into law school and I think we need a lot of attorneys like you, what's your day look like and how do you maintain balance, amidst the demands of your time of being an attorney.
Amy: This is one of those, feel like, know, you go to so many conferences and there's always this, this question about the elusive work life balance, you know, and, I think, like most women, I will say, I willingly admit, I have not cracked the code to that.
And I am certainly no expert in it. but I thought, I'll give you a little rundown of what it looks like Okay. In the helps that, you know, Oh, okay. That's a good idea. Or, you know, my husband and I have three boys. They're 10, seven and five. We get up at six o'clock, put them on the bus at 645.
And then my husband and I started doing this thing. we just walk around the neighborhood. So he and I can have a little bit of okay, what's the day look like what's on the agenda. And it's also you get exercise. Um, So that's been really nice and we have not broken it really since August.
Maybe one day when it rained, and then I'll come back, get coffee, breakfast, check my email. I do a little bit of work in the morning. I don't come into the office super early because of the traffic in Atlanta. So I found a way to. Do some work at home and then head in. And then I listened to this app called the hallow app.
You might've heard of this. And I know the hallow app. Sure. Yeah. Mark Wahlberg is a big advocate, so it's great because they'll do like the daily scripture reading or a daily prayer and it's real, you know, you, can go as short or as long as you want.
So I really like it because I found that, really, even during COVID, you know, it was so hard. It was so easy to get out of the good habits that you try to, you know, whether it was working out or your spiritual life. So I've really, the last couple of years, that's been a big thing for me is I either listen to it in the morning while I'm getting ready or in the evening while I'm, getting ready for bed.
So that way it's kind of, you know, you just insert it in your daily routine. And then I'll either go downstairs if I'm working at home that day, I work at home a couple of days a week, or I go into the office. And then that's a nice time to, to just decompress in the car. I am a terrible singer, but I do love singing alone in my car where I can't bother anyone.
So I'll usually like belts and Whitney Houston or something. And then, you know, the bulk of my day as a corporate lawyer is drafting documents, having calls, reading emails, working on business development, that sort of thing. And then either my husband and I, or I, depending on what we both have going on in the evening, I'll go pick up the boys from their afterschool.
Activities do more work in the evening, sometimes before dinner, and then we get the boys to bed, and then we have a little bit of downtime to, you know, watch a show or, complete some more work if I need to and then, yeah start it all over the next day. Just try to fit little snippets for downtime in and the things that are important and then. And then basically just get to the weekend, you know, and rinse and repeat,
Anne: right? They say, that's right. I like that because, I'm a big believer in a little physical activity. So good for you guys that you are walking together on that. That's great.
And then a little bit of spiritual, cause I think this miracle gets your mindset for the day a lot of people read them in the morning. I actually read them at night so that I can reflect back and see, you know, where God was working in my life.
Yeah. That kind of thing. And I'm lucky because I am my own boss and I do love to, get up and, you know, like, read the paper, have my coffee, I go to mass. Tom and I go to mass every day. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, we do that. And then I do with yoga three times a week if I can. Oh, great. Yeah.
Walk on the other days. Need to get in the habit. It's just like, it's all of a sudden I get my walking clothes on and then it's six o'clock and I'm like, dang it, I didn't walk again today. Right. this is inspiring me to get out there in the morning.
Because I think if I don't do it in the morning, it ain't going to happen.
Amy: Yeah. And that's why we started doing it because we said, okay, you know what? We have to get up to go to the bus stop. because my husband read something where it's easier to start a habit that is tacked on to something else you have to do.
Like If you brush your teeth and then right after you do something else that you're trying to do, it's already part of your routine. And it's been really great both for the physical part and then just to have that time he and I alone together and it's, 15, 20 minutes.
It's not a long amount of time, but at least it's something.
Anne: Yeah. I mean, Especially with a busy household like that. I love that. And actually it's funny. I walked with Sonia Chopra and she's going to be our keynote at the retreat, Dr. Sonia Chopra. We watched in the morning, but we were slow walkers.
but what she said was that it's very healthy and, and they've actually proven that it's really great to get morning sunshine. I should Google it and see what that's about, but, Oh, I love that. I thought of that also. It's not only that you're having that one on one time with your husband, or your partner or, you know, one of your besties, I used to walk with girlfriends on a regular basis. I was like, we're all in the walk and then you get home and you're like, Hey honey, everything's going great today. and this is the funny thing too, lay off subject. But was walking with someone that didn't like her husband and I was starting to roll over onto me.
And I'm like, I can't walk with you anymore. So find a partner that actually builds on your best strengths and leave that other stuff in the basement, behind. I think that's really funny. Well, That's cool. That'snice way to go through, your day.
And then also, you did put a lot of work in there though, Amy, I mean, there's a lot of work. And I mean, I was thinking about that with your career, I guess sometimes when you're working in some firms, it's a lot more of like 24 seven and in a little bit more. family friendly and, it's physically more friendly to you as a, as a woman. You've made that hard choice.
Amy: Yeah. And what I always really liked, about the law is that there is a lot of flexibility. I mean, Unlike a lot of our, listeners who are dentists, I really empathize with them because they've got to do their work in an office when you have to physically be there.
And it is beneficial for me that as long as I have a laptop and my phone I can do my work from anywhere which is also a curse because then it's harder to leave behind. and we have to be careful too, as women that sometimes we feel so much guilt, right. or I'm not working enough or I'm not with my kids enough or whatever it is. But I think it's just each day. I just try to say, you know, do the best you can with the time you have for the glory of God is what one of my mentors used to always say. And then, if you can't get it done tomorrow is another day, God willing.
So that's all you can
Anne: do. That is so fun because when Amy and I first met, we both were raised Catholic. And so, yes, she went into the convent for five years. And I think I may have told you, when I was in, seventh and eighth grade.
I was gonna be a nun and I, think. Similar to, you, I had kind of that calling, but then, you know, I went to like, well, that went out the window,I have a lot of priests in the family and early on, of course he was married to them, but two girls, but similar to you, like You listen to your heart and you listen to the spirit that guides you and yeah, in the Duke community, we have a lot of different religions, but there is a spirit that guides all of us.
Amy: Yeah, this is ties into some of the things I mentioned in the article, just really about being your authentic self and who, God created you to be That's really the key to happiness and success this life. And, I think. Just taking time to figure that out is, always pays dividends in the end,
Anne: Okay. So it was a summer 2023 edition go back and read that because a couple of things came out of that article to me were that the courage that it takes, first of all, to go into the convent, because your whole family's like, what are you doing?
going to be an attorney and to leave the courage. And then as women, yeah, my decision and my stuff is God really calling me. So give you a lot of credit for finding that, out. And then from there, you went to Notre Dame's law school, hence that's where the Notre Dame, cheering comes in hearts.
Um, All of that, but you know, back, to like your career. So some women are looking to pivot a bit now and sure. Don't you wish we all knew what we know now that we knew then, right? Something like that. What do you know now that you wish you knew when you first started your career in law?
Amy: Yeah, so I think, a lot of us, who are listening are probably type A personality, high achieving women. And the burden that comes with that is that you think you got to have everything figured out and you got to have all the answers, you know, and then your life needs to be this like linear.
And very rarely is that the case. I think the more often you talk to people, it's really more of kind of a circle and a squiggly line, And that was one of the things that I've realized in the last few years. I think for many years, I thought, Oh to be a successful lawyer, I have to know everything, I've got to figure it all out because I looked at people above me and I unfairly, projected that on them, thinking well, they have all the answers, you know, and then you realize, no, they really don't they're really just doing their best and to figure it out too Winnie the Pooh has a lot of very adult wisdom.
And, great philosophy. And so I like when he, tells Christopher Robin, you're braver than you believe stronger than you seem and smarter than you think, you know, and I think that as women, a couple of weeks ago, I listened to a whole seminar on imposter syndrome and I thought, yeah, there's times in my life I've really dealt with that.
And I think a lot of us do where we're very hard on ourselves. You know, Even my husband sometimes if he makes a joke or something, you know, and I'll tell him. Please don't do that because you have no idea how I am my toughest critic and I'm so hard on myself about certain things, you know, he'll say, okay, I'm sorry, you know, but, I think sometimes it's so much easier to have that negative talk of, Oh, I, not capable.
I don't know how to do this. I'm not going to figure it out, you know, and maybe a lot of it's just. Wisdom with age, I don't know, but you get to those points where you just say, you know, I obviously wouldn't have gotten to this point if I didn't know what I was doing and I'm not perfect.
I'm going to make plenty of mistakes, but that's okay. That's part of the process. And you've got to surround yourself with the people who give you the freedom to do that, because not everybody does, there's some people that have their own insecurities. And I think I, kind of realized that too, I would, know, think, oh it's, just me and my insecurity, but then you realize.
we're all dealing with something. And you've just got to kind of stay focused on what you know and do your best and dust yourself off and get up tomorrow and try again. and ever since I've come to that realization it's given me so much more happiness and freedom professionally and personally too, and then the last thing I would say is just really, be your authentic self and set boundaries where you need to give yourself the freedom to do that. Cause I think a lot of times too, as women, we think I've got to be all things to all people. And, maybe I have to be someone that I'm not.
even what we were talking about before taking time to exercise, taking time pray or whatever it is you need to do to get yourself in the right frame of mind. You have to do that because if you don't do it, you're not going to get through the day.
I really wish I, could speak to my younger self 10 years ago as starting out as a lawyer, I would say, just give yourself a lot more grace and lower the unrealistic expectation that you have of being perfect because nobody is
Anne: exactly. And that's why you know you're in the right spot and you've seen it cause you've worked in the dental community.
It's perfection, perfection, perfection. You've got to have perfect. And I came across this a seminar I was at years ago of progress, not perfection. And I love that because it's moving forward. Yeah. And realizing that. Everything that we've been given or the lows and the failures, you know, if you learn from them, you know, you're going to be better, next time around.
And then that's all learning curve that we have instead of beating ourselves up. And it's nice that you can laugh with your husband like that. Hey, Hey, hold on there, buddy. That's not, you I say this all the time, like, Tom, I know when he's mad at me, but he doesn't think I'm funny.
And so when you hit the wrong chord, oh, back up, but then, you know, give,grace to that too, because, you think we're funny or we're trying to help
Amy: Exactly. And he was really surprised because he, you know, oh my goodness, I'm, so sorry.
Right. But it's like, You know, you have to communicate that too. It's just, this actually is, a sensitive topic. So let's just, you know, and he was like, okay, got it.
You
Anne: know, That's setting your boundaries and that's giving you power. And I think the older we get, even though you're still so young and the Talked about that really struck me was the fact that, it's a zigzag line, and we talked about that. I think Janet Hagerman wrote something on the zigzag line as well. And that is, really true. But I do think, especially for women, because it's, you don't know if that baby's going to be really good or not so good, a little cranky. lot of it rests on our shoulders where I think men can be a little bit more linear. They put that, yes. And they just go. straight ahead because they don't really have to manage the entire orchestra in
Amy: the background. The mental load of women, I love that we talk about that more and more now our minds are wired very differently.
And I think that, you know, more people in the career world, especially since COVID, I think people do start to see that women have a lot on their minds at any given moment. And we put a lot of pressure on ourselves and get really burned out because of that.
Anne: And I think if you're listening and you're hiring people today I was with dentist in um, Orlando with the 88 and he was talking about, Hey guys don't get upset with me. I love my guys, but I love hiring women. They give it their all and the key for a woman is they need the flexibility.
Exactly.
Amy: Exactly. If
Anne: you give them a little flexibility, they'll figure out a way to be an excellent employee the other things. Because we're created by
Amy: nature. Yeah. And you know, if you want something done, ask a busy woman, right?
Anne: I love it. It's one of my other favorite quotes. we think that's good until everybody asks us to do everything and we're like, Hey, look, my husband's sitting on the back porch here reading. Why don't you ask him? He seems very available for this task, but you know. If you want something done, ask mom and, no offense, but I think things are changing though, too. I mean, Just to be honest, I'm of a generation that my mom stayed at home until like, I think my sister, was in high school.
And then she went back to teach some other things, and then I've always worked. I mean, I've always had a part time job in hygiene, which was again, the flexibility. Yeah. you know, be a mom, be there to pick the kids up and take them to the bus stop and all of those things, but still my professional career
So happy about that. And I really love that the industry is starting to see that is a very valuable part of the workforce we have in front of us. But there's a couple of things I want to talk to you about to pick your brain here, because I just got a contract.
And it was 12 pages long. And then I finally signed it. And then somebody says, Oh, you shouldn't have signed that. I'm like, Oh my God. Well, okay.So tell me
some reasons why. Business owners and we're all striving, we have some kind of a side gig why should we hire an
Amy: attorney? Yeah. Sometimes intimidating, right? I mean, like any industry, sometimes you think I'll just do my own taxes. I don't want to hire somebody that's going to cost me,
you know.
butwhen you think of like medicine or dentistry and there's all these different specialties, right? It's the same in law. So you want to have a lawyer who really understands your business and contract language because a lot of it is convoluted.
And you don't need a lawyer to read everything, of course, but if there's something that's a high dollar amount and you're worried, okay, if something goes wrong, how would I get out of it? What would be the ramification? sort of like an insurance policy, you know, having a lawyer look at things.
And certainly if you're thinking about going through any type of transaction, if you're, going to buy another practice or going to buy another business or sell yours, that is certainly something you want. Because there's a lot of moving pieces there and you really do want to have somebody who knows that industry.
I've had a couple of examples just in the last few months of where, a really nice dentist down in Florida engaged a recruiter, he needed to, have a dental like implant specialist make certain implants for And it's really hard to find people who know how to do that.
So he hired a recruiter and signed this simple contract and the recruiter was awful and sent him a couple of people that were really not qualified. And so it ended up costing him so much more money in the long run, this person threatened to sue him because he wasn't paying, but he wasn't getting what he paid for essentially.
But then when I notified him this contract it's not very well written and it is giving this recruiter a lot of leverage. Which, if a lawyer had looked at it in the beginning, this wouldn't have happened, and then I had another person recently, too who had an agreement that, the other party did not perform, but there really wasn't any remedy for what, she could do because that other party didn't perform.
And that's the kind of thing that. You may not be thinking through all that because a lot of times business owners, we enter into contracts with people we know and we think, Oh, everything's going to be sunshine and roses, whatever. And then, a lot of times it isn't.
And so really it's going back to the insurance policy. You just want to be prepared hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. And it's always better to spend a little bit of money at the outset than a lot of money and headache down the road because like this individual that I was talking to a couple days ago with this contract where.
the other party didn't perform. She said, this has taken up so much of my time now. And it's embarrassing because now I have these other commitments that now I can't fulfill because this other party did not uphold their end of the bargain, and so I told her well, what we'll do is next time You will create a contract for you and you don't sign their paper, you get them to sign your paper that you have kind of all these provisions so that's really what it is, I look at myself as just sort of a member of their team and I advocate for them and I think too there's a lot of flexibility nowadays with billing and various structures, it's not always the traditional, bill by the hour model.
There's, other creative ways that we can find ways to work with people who need a lawyer. And that's one of the things I really like about my firm is that we recognize that, people have varying needs varying needs to, meet those needs at different times.
And we're always willing to work with people on that because we always view it for the longterm we want you to trust us and have us as part of your team. And we're willing to work with you in whatever flexible way to make that happen.
Anne: That's really comforting.
that you guys are willing to work with people. I think that's a key. I don't want to ask, you know, an attorney because that's going to cost me so much. sleepless nights, mean, all of that, and then it's actually ruining your business.
I mean, I'm not signing a contract, until give it to you so what would you do like say, I was going to sell my practice because this is interesting, you know, so many docs that have sold their practices that the head doc that started the practice for 40 years ends up just being devastated by what happened after.
So yeah, sell your business or sell your practice. would be the first thing? I just reach out to you we set up a meeting
Amy: then. Exactly. And so, you know, usually like at the letter of intent stage is usually where the lawyer will kind of get engaged and then that way I like to be involved before the letter of intent is signed.
Just because if there are certain terms that we can negotiate at the outset, that may be important to do. And before I came back to private practice, I was at a dental support organization, so I was on that side, I'm very familiar with how the deals are structured and things. run into this many times where a dentist or somebody will be selling their practice and they'll say, Oh, you know, my brother in law is an estate lawyer, or my brother in law is a divorce lawyer, and I'll get him or her to help me.
Do not do that they're not business lawyers. They've not done enough training. You need a transactional lawyer who's actually, you know, has that experience. point is that you want to benefit from. the attorney's expertise when you're going through those things and say, okay, what is typical in the market?
Maybe I'm being low balled here, or maybe they're low balling me salary to stay on, or, they're kind of saying that they want me to keep consulting for a number of hours every month, but they don't want to pay me, you know, how do I work through that? Or they don't want to give me a bonus for certain things maybe business that I bring to the business or practice, right?
in addition to legal things, it's business things too, that sometimes the lawyer can really help you with just because of what they've seen in the market they know what to, advocate, for on your behalf. and again, it never hurts to ask, right.
You know, you can reach out I mean, I've done many transactions that are very small and we just charge a flat fee, you know, we just say, we're not going to charge you by the hour because we think this is less than 10 hours. And we're just going to charge a flat fee. And then it gives the, seller buyer comfort in knowing, okay, here's the amount I'm going to pay to the attorney at closing.
And so, yeah, I think, there's lots of flexibility out there and lots of things probably that business owners are not always thinking through that. A phone call never hurts
Anne: be not afraid, right? I mean, Be not
Amy: afraid. Exactly. Don't be afraid of lawyers.
many of us are pretty nice people.
Anne: The other thing that I think is so important for you, especially in this dental niche or niche of whatever, I don't know, do you say niche? I always say niche, but Anyway. Okay. Bye bye. The neat thing about this that I could see is that being on the side all that time. Yes, that would give you so much expertise to be on the seller side now the other thing mentioned like yeah, let's.
Stick with an attorney that has done at least one dental transaction. Yes. And it would be better if they're an expert in the dental arena because there's a lot of responses. There are. And a lot of emotions. the thing that to me is heartbreaking is when the senior doc is devastated by what happens.
and his legacy is going down the toilet. There's got to be some guardrails there that you can help a doctor, with this. And then even on the young side, I mean, it's an example for the younger dentist also to do the right thing. Yes. the best contract is one that everybody wins.
Right. And is that possible?
Amy: Yeah. And it is possible, you know, I mean, you won't get every little thing, perhaps, but, you know, that's what I really love about my job and, I never would have thought that all spiritual elements of my prior life in the convent, I would be able to draw on that.
But yes, at the end of the day, we're human beings, not human doings. And when you're negotiating these deals as women too, you know, I mean, I think this is where it's really advantageous to have women, negotiate things because we are very in tune to the emotions and just having an intuitive sense for where we think things are going to go.
You know, I mean, I've done some deals where I've said to to my client, you know, I just like an icky feeling about what's going on here, I'm usually right, I think that's the value too. And just, like I said, you don't want to view the lawyer as just like this hired gun.
It's sort of, okay, I need someone on my team who's going to advocate for me and who understands. All of the things because it's not just the business transaction. I mean, It's like when you sell your house, it's not just a house, a piece of real estate, right? It's all your memories.
It's all your hard work. so that's the part of my job that I just love so much because it is very personal for people, for the buyer and the seller. And it's just wonderful to be able to facilitate. I mean, You're making dreams come true when you sign closing documents for the most part,
Anne: Oh, that is wonderful.
Well, I mean, I'm going to call you, I think if anybody's listening, Amy, all of our dues, seriously, How do we get in touch with you if we have a question or we have a friend because a lot of our, yes, ourconsultants and they need a good attorney that they can really believe in and know that they're going to put the person. first. not just all the legal, the businesses that it's a lifetime of achievement and failures and wins and a practice and all of those things. That is a lot of emotion right there. So how do we
get in
Amy: touch with you? you can find me on my law firm's website.
it's Barnes and Thornburg. my email is amy. Kluesneratbtlaw. com. You can find me on LinkedIn, There's not too many Amy Kluesner's out there. It's K L U E S N E R. And I will respond via LinkedIn or email or my phone number is listed on the website as well. Anyway, yes, always happy to help in any way.
And if I'm not the right person to help, I can send you to the person who is
Anne: that's comforting for me and for all of us. I love it. And all that will be in the show notes, everybody. So if you're listening, go look at the show notes and read Amy's article, reach out to her with your questions and, refer your buddies because that's what You know, Amy, good people find good people. Yes. Yes. That's how we're going to help build, our kingdoms right here on earth. That's right.
Amy: Greater glory of God. We
Anne: that we have that in common with each other. It's such a pleasure to see you today. I wish you nothing.
You too. Great health and great success in your career. You're coming up on a year here at Barnes and Thornburg you know, I can't wait follow you and to actually, eventually we'll be doing business together. Cause you know, I'm getting up there. Yes.
Amy: As you build your empire, you're going to need more and more. contracts,
Anne: right? I know, more and more questions for you. So thank you, Amy. You have a great day. You're so welcome. Oh, everybody that's listening, as Amy said this a couple times, your authentic self, remember, keep doing you. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you the next time. Bye now.
