everyone. It's Anne Duffy. Welcome to the Just Do It podcast for women in dentistry. I am so happy that you're here today with me and my wonderful guest that is going to be sharing a little bit about how she got started in dentistry and where she sees dentistry is going. Let me tell you a little bit about her before we get started.
Anne: Jennifer de St. Georges delivers practical, proven, and logical solutions for today's practice management frustrations and problems. Known for her wit, honesty, and bottom line approach, Jennie has built a global following. Her strong communication skills, Delivered with her unique sense of humor, and I can attest to that, ensure learning is both effective and fun.
Attendees leave with the passion to implement needed change and enjoy the benefits. Jenny offers her programs from live on stage to virtual and on demand. She is somebody that we have become new fast friends and I'm so happy you're here. Welcome Jenny de St. Georges.
Jennifer: And thank you. It is an absolute honor.
I think, you know, we've, been ships passing in the night, I know for years, you reached out to me a year ago, and between our two busy schedulesI finally realized I dropped the ball and needed to follow up. it's like we finish each other's sentences. It's quite scary when you find yourself on the same page as somebody.
Anne: I know. And it's so fun. I mean, Someday we're going to have to just go get a hotel room somewhere, lock us in and stay there forever. Because we have a lot in common, but Jenny, I look up to you so much. You are so busy.
You just got back from. What, Dubai? I just
Jennifer: got back from Dubai yesterday I've got a big,speaking event and uh, commitment to Saudi Arabia. So I'm back there in October or November.
Anne: If you're listening, you're going to be like, how do I get on that agenda? And it's beautiful when you think about how your journey has gotten you to this point. And we're still doing it. Aren't we, Jenny? We're still doing it, still giving back to our community that we love so much. how did you get started in dentistry and to be into this, wonderful community that loves beauty.
They have to be smart and you have to really care about people. How did you get involved?
Jennifer: work in two markets. One is teaching dental practice management and the other, I have another life that most people don't know about. And it's Icoach and speak to professional speakers on the business of speaking, because honestly, I've been doing it for a long time.
When I'm in dentistry, I'm always asked two questions by dentists, particularly if you're with the committee or you're having dinner the night before, or they're being gracious enough to drive you to the airport. They always say, how did you get into dentistry and how did you get into speaking? To which, to both of them, I always say, it's a long story.
I never go into the details. When I'm speaking to speakers, I always tell them the story, how I got into speaking, because it's very unusual. So let me do dentistry, because that's what it relates to. I basically came into dentistry through the back door. I married my late husbandprobably six or seven weeks after he graduated from dental school.
he was in San Francisco. I, moved from London to New York to San Francisco. He moved from Paris to San Francisco. So we built a practice in the South Bay of the Bay Area and we walked through the door to what we would call a scratch practice, meaning there was an empty book, there were three empty chairs, there wasn't a patient in the world who knew we were there.
And he looked at me standing in the business area and he said, well, dear, why don't you answer the phone for the first couple of weeks till I actually find somebody who knows what the hell they're doing. That's the way I got into dentistry. And then to make it very short over a period of time. I noticed that when we went on a ski trip or we went out for dinner with other dentists, they were always complaining about, why does this happen?
Why are there so many no shows? How come Delta, then we used to call it CDS, how come all these things happen? And I'm sitting quietly thinking, I'm really confused because if they did this and this, it wouldn't be a problem. So finally I voiced my opinion that, if they did this instead of that, and then they'd come back to me months later and they say, Jenny, that works.
I did it and it works. And so I'm sitting here thinking, I know nothing about dentistry. I've only ever worked in one dental practice. I come from a part of England where basically it's common sense and logic and roll up your sleeves and get it done. and then it came to a head when one day Eamon and I came back from lunch and there was a dentist hanging over our front desk, interviewing one of my administrative staff on how Jenny did it and Eamon looked at me and said, I am not paying my staff.
to educate and train the competition across the street. He got very emotional about it. So I thought, well, this is interesting. I wonder why my approach is so different. So I signed up for a program in San Francisco on how to collect money from patients. And there's nobody in the world, particularly those of us who know nothing about dentistry is asking people to pay.
So I get in the car and I go to this whole day program and there are about 500 people in the room and everybody from healthcare was run by a collection agency. So we had physicians and dentists and chiropractors and veterinarians and we had a whole plethora of healthcare, everybody there wanting to know how to ask patients for money more successfully.
So at the end of the day, I asked where the organizers were and somebody pointed out this gentleman. So I walked up and I said, I need my money back. And he said, excuse me, want my money back. He said, why? I said, because your, speaker's information was wrong and speaking style, it was just awful.
I just want my money back. And when he picked himself off the ground he looked at me, he said, have you ever spoken before? And I said, absolutely not. And he said, do you think you could do any better than she did? And I tend to shoot from the hips. I'm just going to use the word I did use he actually became a good friend in time to Len and I said well, I'm sure as hell couldn't do any worse than she did.
Anne: Oh,
Jennifer: no. I love it. He was speechless for about, it seemed like hours. I'm sure it was just a second or two. So he said, may I have your card? And I said, certainly. So I handed my business card and I was going to see Baryshnikov in Don Quixote. That night in the ballet. So I walked out into the hotel lobby, the Jack Tarr hotel.
It's no longer there. I bought a yellow pad from the gift shop and took three hours and I wrote the program the way I think it should be done. so I went back and I took Len's card, Medicom Collection Agency, I still remember, and I put it on my desk and I waited for Len to call, which, of course, he didn't.
I mean, who's thiswoman who walks up and basically attacks, what I learned later, is his star speaker of a stable of speakers that fly around the country doing this. He puts on 250 programs a year and I attacked his number one star. So I waited for three weeks and every day I looked at it and my blood pressure was going higher and higher.
So finally, that was it. My blood pressure boiled over. I took 10, 000 out of my savings account. I hired the Hyatt Regency at the San Francisco airport. I put a program together. I designed brochure, the way I would do it, the flyer. I wrote all the copy, I found a printer, I sent it out, and about 150 people walked through the door paying 199 each.
I'd never spoken in my life. I had a big book that I'd written every word for the whole day. after 45 minutes of reading, I thought, this sounds like I'm a robot. So I just put it down, spoke from the heart and of course knew my material backwards. And at the end of the day, these dentists came up and said, I'm confused.
Why have we never heard from you or of you before? This was wonderful. Well, of course they'd never heard of me because I've never did it. And for the next 10 or 15 years, before I got into the association field, I literally flew around the country. I put 10 programs on one flyer, send it to two or three States.
I fly in the day before I did all the negotiation with the hotel. I ran my own program. I did all the speaking. I collected all the money. I did all the registration. And that's how I started in the speaking business.
Anne: Wow. that is definitely the England way to do it.
And talk about, grit and chutzpah and confidence and all of those things, wow, that's so DeWish, honestly, Jenny, I mean, just the fact that You decided to do it before you actually even knew if you could do it and stepped into it.
Jennifer: It's funny you would say that.
I never once hesitated, I never once actually thought it wasn't going to work and, did I have an ego or did I just make an assumption I don't know. But with that one event. And I got into two markets because people heard me and then they came at the end of the, first program and they said, Oh, I'm the chairman of the CE committee in the San Francisco Dental Society.
So from that one meeting, the phone started to ring. And then in time. Dentist said, I'd like you to come to the practice, which of course, that's not really my forte. I've done enough on site to know that I have limitations where I think most of the consultants who consult on site are absolutely brilliant.
But I got to the point when I thought, look at the business I'm throwing away by saying no. So I ended up with eight consultants. I had eight women who worked with me. And they flew around North America, a couple would fly to the UK So when I gave a program and dentist said, Jenny, want JDSG in my practice.
I said, may I introduce you to Christine or, Joanne, whoever it was. And so they implemented. And so it was really good for the consultants because they didn't have to pre sell the concept. I pre sold the concept. Wow. The dentists were much more open than sometimes dentists will call a consultant say I need help and then fight the consultant every step of the way.
Having asked for help, they then sabotage the help when it's given. So I removed that barrier.
Anne: Wow. That's genius. Before you had to have the blueprint or the playbook, you developed it as you went and it's got to be one of the most successful consulting businesses and one of the oldest consulting businesses out there.
You set the stage, set the tone for so many of those that followed you in this arena and you're still doing it, which is so cool.
Jennifer: just need to comment because I need to put things into context when PI, which most people today knows Pacific Institute, but when it started in 79, I want to say it was called Pacific Institute of Management and Design, and it was founded by Dr.
Jim Pryde, who is the associate dean at UOP as you know,and Phil Weitner. And they got together and Jim, of course, was the big guru on design and he was the one that created the two door entryway into a, treatment room. So assistant could go in one way, the doctor or the hygienist could go in one way and the patient could go the other way.
Right. So they got together and they realized they need to balance it with management. Jim wanted Nancy Carr because he was very close to Nancy and Jim wanted Jenny cause he was very close to Jenny. So we ended up by the four of us got together and Nancy ran all the consulting on site and I was the front person on the stage with Phil.
And from then, if I look at many of the consultants today, Who independent, many of them are alumni of the original PI. And so they came through in all the forms I designed for my husband's practice. I rolled everything into Pacific Institute. So grew from there.
Anne: Wow. That was kind of your baby then, I guess, really.
And then, it turned into a teenager and then went to college and. And now look at Everyone's around the country is getting their masters through your programs. That's quite a legacy, Jenny. Congratulations on that. you know, you should be so proud of that.
I mean, Wow. First of all, women in a man's world, because you certainly were back in the day. I know Jim pride from just him writing for us and just the fact that he brought you as an equal into his company and on stage. That's quite a compliment to you
He had very high standards and very strong opinions. And if you didn't play it Jim's way, he might let you know it. Yes you had to exceed his standards to even be accepted, so thank you, I can imagine, though, he probably felt the same way about you. He said if, Jenny's not the easiest one to buy in right away unless she believes in it.
I, know that for a fact. That is true. After knowing you for a short time, that's such a neat story. I mean, so actually love brought you to dentistry because you fell in love with your sweet husband and worked with him and then just had that knack. It's something about using your strengths and your gift, your God given talents, Jenny, You just have that in you and you never let it die, you never let it, bury you had the, confidence, always think about that for women.
Sometimes they have these ideas, but they don't execute them and nothing seemed to hold you back. You didn't even think about the downside. You just said, I can do it.
Jennifer: I'd like to balance that because at the age of 43, I decided to leave the 18 year old marriage, mainly because Edmund wanted,he was confused to see me flying around the country.
He really wanted Jenny to sit at home and cook meals every night. And honestly, that's not me. So made a decision. And so when I left at the age of 43, I was so insecure. I used to dance professionally, put me on the dance floor. I'm in seventh heaven. Put me on a horse. I'm in seventh heaven.
Put me on the stage, but take me off the stage and put me in a social cocktail party. I am very insecure and would be happier sitting at home with a book playing with my dog than making small talk. I'm really bad at that. So I really admire people who can bring balance. I'm sort of black and white.
Anne: Oh my gosh, I didn't know that. So that's interesting. And you know, it's, it's interesting you bring that up because I've had a conversations with women recently. I was 42 before I had my first side gig. So I get that. I think there's something about women in their late thirties and their forties.
That they start to find their power and if your husband or your partner or your brother or your dad or man in your, area aura starts to get a little threatened and doesn't support it. It will bring you down and you have the strength to know that and leaving that situation. I think it's really hard for a man and it just goes back to say, I mean, of course he said, well, would you answer the phone for A couple of weeks. Right then and there, he wants you there to do. Minimal work in a sense for what you have brought to dentistry. I guess it got you started, but I, give you so much credit and the courage to leave something like that so that you could soar and you knew you could do that.
that's one of the most courageous moves that you probably made in your life.
Jennifer: It really is. And when I made that move, I'd been speaking part time for nine years. And so when I made that move, I just, threw the baby out with the bathwater and went full time.
But looking at the figures then, and I really don't think they've changed, the largest group of Couples who are getting divorced are couples that have been married 30 years. In fact, I have a neighbor down the street they're just breaking up after 30 years. And I believe, the majority of these long term marriages actually were instigated by the woman.
And I think we just sat on it. Too long. We suppressed it for too long. We let the frustration build up instead of communicating that we felt we were being squashed down. And then we blow. so, you know, much of it is our fault because we just, didn't tackle it. We were just guilty of avoiding it.
Oh well, if we ignore it, it will get better. And things that aren't attended to usually do not get better.
Anne: I would look at it a different way. I understand that we were so used to that. Again, when I started in dental hygiene, I never ever thought I'd have to be a breadwinner.
I mean, Tom had the great big job and we moved all over the country, seven state boards and all that. When I. Knew I had to make more money. In other words, I couldn't just rely on him. And then you knew when you had to rely on yourself to pay your bills, right?
That's when the true grit and the power of women, because By golly, don't tell me I can't do it. and no matter what, there is no hurdle. We're not going to jump over to save ourselves, save our kids, I think that's when we get to that, power that we have.
And, Shame on, feel sorry for men that don't understand that we're partners and that we can both be strong and we can both have our dreams come true. And not all of us are meant to not grow could only clean your house so much and you could only garden so much and there's so much more out there in the world.
And you felt that, By accident, which is just incredible that you built this amazing career, by just saying I can do it and you stepped into it. And so you're a powerhouse and Doesn't sit well with a lot of partners. Let's put it that way. good for you that you didn't give up.
You didn't quit because now you're out there speaking in Dubai, you're speaking in Saudi Arabia, you're speaking all over the world, which is, was just something that just seems like. What a dream that would be for a speaker to be able to be on that many stages and to be able to touch that many people, Jenny.
It's one thing to be in a dental office helping, them get better, get their forms and all that stuff, but to be able to speak across the world and talk about What's really important because I know that had a conversation The last time we talking about your love of talking about and speaking about perfectionism and procrastination which I Would say you're not a procrastinator because by golly you just decided in that moment that you could do better and you did it better, started off with perfectionism, right?
Because you had it all written down in a script, then you pivoted a little bit, but tell me a little bit about, how you see that coloring the professional life of dental colleagues.
Jennifer: think it's huge. I didn't realize I was a perfectionist till I came into dentistry and married Edmund.
and I did marry for the second time, I married another dentist, can you believe that? And David passed away, so I'm now widowed twice with two dentists, and both I work 24 7. I call myself a recovering perfectionist.
Anne: So the
Jennifer: audience asked me, what is a recovering perfectionist? I said, it's somebody who at least admits they have a problem. And people who don't are in denial. But Edmund was the absolute ultimate perfectionist. And so when we got married and we're living together and we're working together and he's running the clinical area and I'm running the practice and the stuff and you've got two tough perfectionists, I'm surprised it didn't break earlier.
But what I discovered watching him, I saw the same traits in him that I saw in myself. As perfectionists, we are seen as being negative and we don't mean to be negative, but if there is a mistake, we noticed the mistake first last week, I was on the phone. I live in Silicon Valley and I was asked by a software company to critique their website, which I love doing because I I'm really good on design and balance.
And I know in a second. And this probably was the best designed website I've ever seen. It was absolutely superb. And after I spent five minutes telling him I was giving him the Oscar of the year for his website, I did it the right way. I did the praising first. I said, by the way, you do have one typo.
I thought the guy was going to have a heart attack on type. He wasn't defensive. He wanted to know. Yeah. So he put in the misspelling I told him and the computer told him, yes, they had found the word with the misspelling. They just didn't tell him where it was. So as I'm talking to him, he's no longer concentrating because he wants to find the mistake.
Perfectionists tend to say the negative before the positive. In dentistry, I learned that when I first was managing the practice, I would say, Mary, thank you for typing up this letter. By the way, there are three typos. Which of course devastated them, and then in turn they're frightened to do anything for you, because all they're ever told is when it doesn't work.
So I learnt in time to say, thank you for typing up eight pages, they're superb. By the way, there's one typo on page two. And so you give the positive before the negative. Perfectionism in dentistry is what they would need to be clinically, Eben used to go into, emergency rooms in hospitals.
He was totally fascinated by surgery and the physicians were in awe with dentists. They said, you work in such finite spaces and here we're in emergency, you know. give or take an inch, it doesn't really matter, but the perfectionist in us tends to be the negative before the positive and we have to learn Dentists as perfectionists and I I'm stereotyping, but it happens enough to allow me to do it. They really should not be running their staff meetings, because they do come across as rather authoritarian, pick on what's not working, and then after they've run the meeting, they say what else do we need to discuss?
And the staff say nothing. And so the dentist says, but why are we having a meeting? And they say well, we don't know, you wanted the meeting. So then the dentist says, and I'm generalizing. Okay. So we don't seem to have any problems. Let's end the meeting. Then you go out to the office at the end of the day and to the car park, and you've got your entire staff standing by a car, having a staff meeting and bitching about all the things they wanted to say, but was scared to say to the authoritarian dentist.
it took me a long time to delegate. Perfectionists delegate once, the person you delegated to does not meet your standards. You overreact. We do not pick our battles wisely. We overreact to everything. And then the next time we don't delegate because we said, Oh, we did it once and it didn't meet our standards.
And so staff are not stupid. They learn, why would I take on a job and be yelled at for making a mistake? So they say, Oh, that's beyond my pay scale or whatever. the dental practice staff will come in to me all the time.
how should I do this? What do you want me to do? And I learned this wonderful phrase one day and I said, if I were not here, how would you have handled it? And they tell me, I said, perfect, that's just what I would have done. And so you have to learn to delegate, you have to learn to be tolerant, and you have to learn to, make it a safe place if they don't make mistakes, how are they ever going to get better and grow?
And so I think many dentists stifle themselves. And I'll tell you a very quick story. I had a very loyal dentist. He followed me everywhere. He was big fan and he called me up one day and he said, Jenny, I've just fired my office manager. Could you find me one? And I said, you know, doctor, I happen to know a superb consultant.
She's closing her consulting business. She would be superb. She can literally come in, run your practice. You wouldn't even know anything was going on. So they got together, they hit it off, She started and she called me most probably less than a month. And she said, we parted company. And I said, what happened?
And she said, I ordered new letterhead and envelopes without getting his permission and he blew it.
Anne: Oh no!
Jennifer: He lost
Anne: control. so many ways. He blew it in so many ways. Oh my goodness. you know, depending on how you look at perfectionism, but is certainly a theme and a trait that makes a good dentist, but you have to have somebody tell you when you need to have that perfection, ruling your decisions and when you need to let go the soft skills, appear.
And a lot of times the soft skills are either so hidden or they are really not there and they have to develop them.
Jennifer: And now you use the word because they are joined. Perfectionism breeds Yes. And again, the perfectionist tends to be black or white, you know, it's either perfect or it's not. And so if you go back to the doctor running the practice, the biggest frustration I hear from staff, and they will come to me at the end of the seminar because there are two places you learn about what's really happening in the practice, in the ladies room, and at the end of the day, when they come to the front of the room and hope the doctor's gone somewhere else.
And their biggest frustration is nothing ever gets done, changes are never implemented. they will come to me and say, we sat here today, doctor thought your program and your solutions were wonderful. It's going to solve all the problems we currently have, but I know nothing's going to change. And so in my sort of bottom line way, I say you have three choices.
And so they say what are those choices? I say, it's very simple. Keep your mouth shut, put up with it, continue with your frustrations, knowing nothing's going to change, continue coming to programs, taking all your notes. putting them back in the drawer and nothing's going to change and accept it.
Number two, educate the dentist to the benefits, make him feel the pain of what's not working, make him enjoy the potential benefits of the change and help him through the change. And you have a third option and they say well, what's that? I said, leave. Why put up with the dentist who doesn't appreciate the fact you are invested in his or her practice and wants to make it better?
I can think of 50, 000 dentists who would kill to have an office manager or a clinical assistant or somebody with your passion and interest. But what you don't do, number four, is you do not stay and bitch. Say and accept it. But you do not stay and cause stress and muddy waters and tension and everything that is negative.
So it's up to you. They say, yes, we've sorted of being avoiding addressing it. You are correct.
Anne: Wow, that is just, wise advice. You can't change other people. I think you gave them something to work with show him the benefits, you know,so often they'll come in, I want to raise, well, let's talk about what I'm going to do to earn this raise knowing that you're going to come up against.
a negative feeling, never implement anything. we're doing things this way because we've always done in this way.it gives them the freedom, the freedom for that team member to say, you know what, I'm not going to take another 10 or 15 years giving myself to this growing practice.
When I'm not going to, feel like I'm growing myself. I've stayed in practices, you know, that I didn't really, grow other than what I looked. out for myself. In other words, if you want to grow, sometimes you have to just look within you can't expect somebody to see it in you and help you grow.
that's not going to happen, then it is good. Dust off your sandals and move on to the next practice. It's going toappreciate you. And boy, that's when you see somebody sore.Because they know what it feels like not to get any movement, not to get any of the great ideas that they just learned and be able to implement those to grow the practice and themselves.
and they didn't waste more time. That's so smart.
Jennifer: But you raised a point and I really should have left the marriage a long time before that because I knew that it was not a positive environment for either of us. And I sort of berated myself and I'm going to say to those of you who are listening, who do have to make choices, I think at the end of the day, timing is everything.
And I have beat myself up and why didn't I do it earlier? And then my left brain says, if you were ready earlier, you would have done it earlier. So I have a sense that there is something bigger than us and maybe we're being protected because if I'd done it before I did it I don't think I would have had the guts to look at Len and say, I want my money back and all those things.
Anne: I do think there is something to timing as everything. And then also, it was not as well thought of back in the day to just you know, I'm leaving now and goodbye.
And I thank you very much. You know what I mean? women, we just, our job is to make things work and to make things work easily and you just keep trying and you wake up every day and you think, Oh, it's going to be different today. if you expect something different and you do the same thing every day, it's insanity. but we do try that and it's hard to make that step. You should feel very, proud of yourself that you had the courage to do that. Because. It takes so much courage even if you're surrounded by friends and family and all that's just atough time to go through and you did it and look at you've had this great career you had another, marriage and wonderful marriage you're still know, on your own again but you're still doing well and still contributing ensuring your legacy is going to continue.
Jennifer: And thank you. And I would add something Women, we are told are more instinctive than men. And I'm told by professionals in that field that actually men have as good an instinct as women. They just don't tap into it or acknowledge it. But I'm extremely instinctive.
And so the second I made the decision to leave the marriage, it had never entered my mind. The decision was that something happened. And within one second, I walked to the phone at nine o'clock on a Saturday night and called our attorney and I said, Norman, I want a divorce. Never did I think about it.
for years. It must've been floating around, didn't realize it. And then something happened. And in that second, something takes over your body. I sat in the chair for three hours. My voice changed. I picked up a pen. I've never seen that handwriting before.
It was like the handwriting of a foreigner. Never seen it before. I hardly spoke for three weeks outside having to talk to patients. And it was like I died and was reborn and I can't believe we're having this conversation. I've never had this conversation.
My body felt as if it'd been put in a boiling vat of oil. my body went to about 200 degrees and I felt 50 years younger and all the stress went out of my body and that all happened instinctively. So I think we need to start learning To listen to our body it's wanting to tell us things that we are not listening
Anne: That's so true. And, I guess sooner than later, but I do believe it's always in the right time. It's always the right time because you wouldn't have this story to tell Jenny, which is going to empower women that are listening to you right now.
They know that there's a voice in their head that they're saying something's not right. You could go another, 15, 20 years, but they may hear this story today and say, you know what? Nope. I can do it. I think today, Jenny, especially in our Duke community, they're not alone.
I wish I would have known you back then, because we've built this community of amazing women. The only common thread that we have is a little bit of dentistry in there. But most commonality that we have is that we're women, first. I've told you this, I don't care what you do in dentistry.
You're a woman, please come sit at our table. just am so happy that Dew has brought us together, you and me, so I can actually share your story. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I can imagine ladies. This is so wise because you've been through so much and you've done so much and you're still doing it.
I think I mentioned one of our principles is start and don't stop, do's don't retire. So, Hey, we're going to have this great place on the ocean, Jenny. We're going to have a male nurse and he's going to be very cute and we're going to have a lot of women living there and we're going to be doing our thing and still coming together for cocktails, dinner, and we'll stay for dessert because I think together we can do some pretty amazing things. But, you've been around dentistry so long and yet you're still so active and so intuitive with what practices need, what dentists need to be successful. Where do you see dentistry going in the future?
Jennifer: I think it's very interesting, and I made this comment to somebody the other day. I've always thought of dentistry as a profession, and I feel it's become an industry, and I'm really uncomfortable. I look at the emails, I look at the flyers, look at all the marketing, and it's definitely being done by outside health care.
These are business people coming in, and it's just become a commodity a way that I was not brought up to. guess I'm a traditionalist. today, we have two markets, I think if you're under Maybe 40, you're the new hit millennial techie. You don't know what a CD is.
You've certainly never seen an audio cassette, a whole different world. And then we've got the more traditional over 45 I think the most exciting thing I'm seeing is for the last few years, everybody's been talking about DSOs. And there was a sense that, everybody just wanted to sell a DSO so they didn't have to take the responsibility of the business.
They could come and do the dentistry. And so I think that market grew too quickly. I did reach out to Wall Street when it first started and I said, you know, I'd like to work with you to put in good systems. And I mean, I was dismissed like, we don't need you. We're Wall Street money. private equity, we can do very well without you so I think they grew too quickly and they brought in two wider mix of quality. They bought in the good people, but they also, I think, bought in some practices were desperate and rather than finding out why their dental chairs were empty, they thought, Oh, well, if we belong to a DSA oh, and sell our business, Our chairs will be full and we don't need to find out what it was that was pissing off our potential patients and the word around town was and today I'm seeing a very different market.
And that is, I was contacted recently by a group of 53 independent dentists in the state, 53 independent, and they got together, and they're forming, I'm still trying to think of a name, I heard somebody call it the other day, a platform, I've got to work out a name, so it's not a solo practitioner, it's not a DSO, these are single practices.
They're getting together. They're now group buying for the 53 practices, and they reached out to me. And what I'm dying for these independent dentists to do is gather a group. But the most important thing is put your systems in place. And your staff training. So if you've got 53 practices throughout a state or an area, most of them, I would think are within driving distance of maybe 15, 20, 30 minutes.
When a staff member is pregnant or somebody is ill, you can actually change staff within the practices. The phones answer the same way. It's the same philosophy. And so what you've done is you've built in a team reservoir because the biggest problem today, as you know, is getting staff.
many years ago, and I tried an experiment, we had a practice, which when we, put the practice together, it was a small community. The town was separated by cows in a field and a railroad. every hour, The train went by to the cars to the Ford factory plant the road.
So it was very rural. Trying to find staff was virtually impossible. I ended up creating a system where we had part time staff. We had a morning team and we had an afternoon team. And you can only do that if your systems are so strong that when the afternoon came in, it only took them about five minutes to find.
The morning team had left for them and then it was like a well oiled Rolls Royce. They just went in. And so if there was a child who was ill or somebody had a problem, they just called each other up the night before and said, would you take Tuesday afternoon instead of Wednesday morning? They sorted it out themselves.
We always had a full team. The biggest gift we could give them was flexibility. And that's what they thought. So it was a win winno person should be stronger than the system.
The system must run the practice and the staff must fit into the system. And if you can put in really strong systems. With backups and follow ups, so people do not drop through the cracks. You can have a morning team and an afternoon team, which the large clinics, honestly, they worked that out a long time ago.
Anne: Well, I mean, It just makes sense, especially when you said flexibility. Women and, 99 percent of the teams are women 50 percent or almost 60 percent now the graduating dentists are women, but in general, the one thing that women want is flexibility because we have to do a lot of things.
And the flexibility gives you love of what you're doing and gives you the, the balance that we seek and the ability to be able to take care of ourselves, our families and everything else. It's just a gift. It just makes perfect sense. think sometimes you need a woman to tell people that because, I don't think that they understand that we wear so many different hats and we have to have some help to balance it all or otherwise the whole world's going to crack.
Jennifer: I remember when I ran the practice, by the time the staff walked in at 7. 30 in the morning, they'd already taken the kids to school, made lunch, and one staff member used to mow the lawn before she came to the office in the morning.
They'd done three jobs before they arrived. know, Having no children, I thought, I congratulated myself, I got to the office on time. They had done all these jobs. And you know, since COVID, when you look at the millions of Americans who've left full time jobs because they want flexibility, there would be no better time to start organizing your practice with part time staff, because that way they can actually use their expertise and get paid for it, but also have the ability to have the flexibility, which is the number one.
Request of employees.
Anne: Yeah, it's just and again, logical makes sense. And I think you can sell it. you know, It sounds to me like you've stayed ahead of the trends, because this is a trend something that, has never been done before. And one of the reasons I think people leave dentistry is because you, literally have to be there.
there's nothing else you can do except be in that office, in that operatory for eight hours a day. And so the flexibility, I think that's why women are coming in looking at dentistry as a profession, from being the leader in the, practice because they can work that out.
it does not, have to be the same as it always has been. I agree. do you see yourself going? This year, you're still speaking. You're still working in practices. What's your goal for and 2025?
Jennifer: My goal now, and I'm beginning to work on it, I've talked about it for too long and, and, and the perfectionism has caused some problems, I've been asked many times and I just have not got around to it, but I am going to be putting on, let's just call it the JDSG University, and it's taking the same structure that I have, and without going into too much detail, I can literally describe it in 30 seconds, outside clinical and technical.
There are three parts of the management of the practice. Patient focus.
,
Jennifer: team focus and business focus. Patient focus has five subdivisions. Marketing, new patient experience. , getting them to pay. Scheduling for profitability, malpractice prevention, record keeping and all that stuff. The team three.
Very simple. Hire for longevity, manage for harmony. And I'm still looking for a few words, but basically take care of the crap before it becomes big. So it doesn't become big because HR problems fester, they just get bigger and bigger. So find them, keep them happy, manage them. And then the business is create your master plan, work your master plan, plan for practice transition.
You've got 11, 3. There are your 11 boxes. And then every time I get a new idea or a new program, I just slot it in. I used to do a full day program on spouses.
I came into dentistry and 62 percent of dental practices had the spouse involved. 62%.
Anne: and back in the day, at least when I first started, I've worked for a male dentist and his bride or his wife was at the front desk and running the practice. I know. It's amazing. Do you know Beverly Wilburn? Are you familiar with Beverly Wilburn?
I have to introduce you to her. She's amazing. She runs a spouse program and she could use some of your expertise. So I'm going to introduce you to Beverly. She's amazing. She's an amazing dude. She's on our board she's married to Carl, who's amazing. And he's a periodontist she runs his practice, but also she can teach others how to do it, but she's very cool and someone that you need to meet.
Jennifer: I remember many years ago, I was sitting in the audience at CDA in Anaheim, about 1300 people in the room and there were two male dentists on the stage. And I'm going to say this was most probably the early eighties. And they both looked at the audience and said, over your dead body, doctor, should you ever bring your spouse into the practice?
I had to be held down in my seat. How dare they? The practices I know that would be. In bankruptcy, if it wasn't for the spouse on the front desk, I have a practice in New Mexico. He's a retired united airline pilot. She's the dentist in the back. He runs that practice Like an airplane.
Like a ship.
Like a ship. he's absolutely wonderful. And she only does dentistry and he takes care of everything else. So I no longer talk about, the wife. It has to be. And sometimes it's a partner. I've got a practice in Connecticut. They've followed me for years. There's most probably the husband and the wife, and I think the daughter is the hygienist. There's an aunt in there. seven members of the family. Now, the problem is, of course, when they go for the barbecue on the Saturday night. Most probably talking dentistry because that's another problem we won't get into.
Anne: But that's amazing that they have a, it's a family affair for sure. I mean, that'sthat would be a wonderful family you could, have your discussions during the day and you still come back for barbecue on Sunday, right? I mean, that's,it's all about communications, Jenny.
And I think that's one of your gifts is being able to communicate. If you can speak from the stage and you're actually coaching other speakers. and really get your message across that people ask you to come back and still ask you to come and come back and come back and come back.that's something to be very proud of. and I think there's some real sage advice that you have in there. It's simple and logical.
Jennifer: thank you. I mean, I've spoken for the University of Washington Dental School 34 times and there've been change of staff there.
So I actually reached out to them the other day and I said, Hey, I've not been there. I mean,34 times. And one of my favorite audiences in the world actually is in Seattle because they're so open and they don't have an ego and they don't sit there with their arms crossed. Um, And say, show me.
and they're ready to go. And if you can prove to them logically it's going to work. I have a dentist there who stood up in a seminar one day and he said, Jenny, this is the 14th time I've heard you. And the ordinance turned at him like, are you so stupid? It's taken you 14 times?
And he said, no. Every time I have a staff change. I take the day off and I sit with my new staff member with Jenny and we go through a day and then I know I don't have to worry. The systems have been maintained. So that continuity I really enjoy.
Anne: love the continuity that you bring to our organization to the world of dentistry.
And I can't wait to follow your career as it continues to go into the next century. So advice would you give for, a young female listener right now that is on maybe a new business plan for herself or a new opportunity for her, maybe coming out of the op or out of the office wants to give back to the profession?
Jennifer: Okay, going to answer your question by giving an example. I've been a member of the National Speaker's Association for 40 years, and when I go to meetings, particularly if I'm going to the national meetings, the new business The first timers have a ribbon on to show by the color that they're first timers.
And so you're sitting in the bar or you're having a cup of coffee and you end up by talking. And so you want to make them feel welcome, but you also want to learn more about what they speak on. And the number of times that I will say to somebody, Oh, so this is your first time at NSA. What is your subject?
And they look at you and say, I haven't decided yet. And I look at them and I say, I suggest you keep your day job. That's all I can say. If they don't have a passion off the stage, how the hell are they going to have a passion on the stage? And so you've got to find out, and it may be the strangest thing.
I mean, So I married into dentistry. I'm glad I didn't marry a plumber. I guess I'd be littering on plumbing or whatever. If one doesn't have a passion, then, you don't pull all nighters and you don't get out of bed at three in the morning to get the six o'clock pain because to a chore um, and we the meeting planners to know this, but basically people with passion will do it for free because it's not really work.
Anne: That is great advice. So find your passion, talk about your passion, speak on your passion. And fortune will follow.
Jennifer: And may I have one more comment? Yes. Real beef to me going back to National Speakers Association. And I hope I don't sound arrogant, but I'm going to say it anyway. In my perspective, about seven or eight, I don't want to put a percentage on it.
Let's say less than 10 percent of this world, certainly in the speaking world, seems to create the vast majority repurpose other people's material. That is a professional way of saying, They are
Anne: plagiarizing.
Jennifer: I got on to Google the other day and you're working with speakers, they say, never Google your name because you just get pages, what you want to Google is the subject you're known for.
So I Googled a phrase that I was known for. To find myself looking at a YouTube and the speaker is saying, I'm now going to teach you X, Y, and Z. This was actually a great program put on by Jennifer D St. George, great English lady. I loved her, but she's retired. Excuse me. I've retired. I was unaware of that.
Wow. And so I talked to somebody in social media, and they said, actually, that is a well known ploy for pinching other people's material. I've had four occasions where fans have called me up and said they were sitting in the seminar and the workbook that the speaker gave was Jenny's workbook and they'd just taken my name off.
So you have to be creative. The world is there for the people who can create and if you're in any environment where you can answer Q& As and solve problems on the spot,
Anne: and hence you, got that natural ability because you took your 45 pages of material and threw it aside and you can speak from the heart and I will put you on any stage, Jenny, and I know that you're going to kill it and you're going to rock that room.
So I just want to say thank you so much. And listen we know you're not retired. You are alive. You're Speaking in Saudi Arabia, and you just got back from Dubai, and you're going to be speaking in the United States all over the place. Again, come and see you, hopefully very soon. I want to get a hug from you, reaching across the Zoom here today, but again, thank you so much for being here with me today, and let's, continue.
I want to have an article that you're going to write for our,one of our upcoming editions, and Jenny, how did we find you? How does our audience find you if they
Jennifer: would like to reach out? Okay, thank you. I have a website which is very simple. It's my initials j d s g dot com and the email tied into that is info at j d s g dot com.
Anne: We will have that in the show notes. I hope that you'll reach out to Jenny and pick her brain like I have today. And again, thank you so much for being with me today. I've got, a new friend, we have, we're locking arms and all for all of you that are listening to us today, remember ladies, keep doing you.
Thanks again. And we'll see you next time. Thank you, Jenny. So much. Oh, I love it. Bye bye.