Anne: Hi everybody. It is Anne Duffy and welcome to the Just DeW It podcast. I am here today with I would say she's a new, fast, good friend of mine, and I've heard so much great information about her as she let through the dental communities throughout her career. Let me tell you a little bit about her before we get started.
Robyn Ramirez is a coach, speaker, and expert in leadership, communication, and mental fitness. She helps dental entrepreneurs build thriving practices and empowers individuals to strengthen communication, resilience, and emotional mastery, blending positive intelligence and conversational intelligence. She drives lasting transformation in business and life.
An Adventured heart. She's training for her second 500 mile camino walk and loves bringing people together over great food, meaningful conversations, and shared experiences. Please help me welcome Robyn Ramirez. Hello, Robyn.
Robyn: Hello. Thank you, Anne.
Anne: Oh my God. I love the end of it. 'cause I love great food and meaningful conversations and shared experiences.
So I think we could be fast friends if you lived down the street from me, right? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I just love it. I love knowing you And Camino walk. Oh my gosh. Is it just life changing and what did you think about it?
Robyn: it was absolutely life changing, more so than I thought. I actually went into it thinking more would be. about the physicality of it, which I love. And it was, and just the nature and all of that. But it was as much emotional as it was spiritual, as it was physical. It was all the things. It was great
Anne: and all the things. that's on my bucket list. and you've given me some, encouragement.
I'm gonna look into that. that's another one of those things. I don't think you can be too old to do the Camino walk and you can take it at your own time, your own pace, go as long as you want. But 500 miles.
Robyn: you just. Summed it up your own time, your own pace. You know it's your Camino It surprises a lot of people when they get there. I hear. Or when I talk about it later, but I would say the majority of people on the Camino are over 65 because who has that kind of time? Retirees. That's right. I think I'm gonna put that
Anne: on our list. I'm really excited to hear you. talk about it, but I'm also so intrigued with the conversational intelligence.
How did you first come across that and how has it changed the way you coach and lead?
Robyn: I was definitely on the search for something. I'm gonna assume like a lot of do's, I've always been sort of that natural leader, one of those people that other people just gravitate toward.
Mm-hmm. Right. Maybe it's because I'm not afraid to speak up. Share my opinion. Boss people around a little bit. Yeah.
Anne: Bossy. Yeah. Your bossy little girl turns into a great natural leader. I think that's true. Exactly.
Robyn: Exactly. But at any rate, I just also seem to then naturally land in leadership positions.
And honestly felt pretty comfortable and I found the flames of that. I love to take in anything I can reading or listening or otherwise about leadership and communication and positivity. To me, all of those things go together and always have. And I always likened myself a, you know, a pretty decent communicator also.
Well, And then I had four kids probably, probably enough said um, right there. But to add to it, I also e eventually started coaching. So my first official coaching title was Business Development coach for dental offices, which unofficially means everything, right? Wow. Yeah. Marketing strategy, SOPs, P and ls, scheduling, hiring, fire, everything.
And as. Time went on? I was experiencing a couple things. first of all, it starts to feel like if, everything's important, which it is, all of those things mm-hmm. all the rest of the things are all important. But if you're trying to address everything at once, if everything's important, nothing's important, right?
Mm-hmm. It's just overwhelming. It's too much. The other thing I was noticing is that almost without fail, as I was onboarding new clients. And their teams. one of the first things that they were asking for was help with communication. Better communication. Some communication.
Any communication. Yeah. Yeah. How do I get through to my team? Right, exactly. And, the team. Why won't you just tell us what's going on? Or, you know, can't we just all get along? It's always
Anne: a two
Robyn: way, always a two way street. Right. Always two way. Which I was excited for because I thought I was a pretty darn good communicator.
And you know, I, felt like, been successful with that in, my own life, but it did not take me long to figure out an effective conversation and coaching somebody how to have an effective conversation. Those were two completely different animals, two different skill sets.
Meanwhile, back on the ranch, there was starting to be some really clear signs that maybe my own conversations weren't nearly as effective as I thought that they were. So as they say right, when the student is ready, what is it? When the student is ready, when the student's ready, the
Anne: teacher appears, appear.
Robyn: Yeah. So I was at a wbecs coaching summit. And I heard a quote, sort of a teaser for some upcoming speakers and, it was for Judith Glacier, who's the founder of, Conversational intelligence. And man, it just totally resonated for me. It brought all of those things together, so I. Of course, I went to her training, eventually took her course and ultimately ended up getting certified.
It was, literally a life changer for me. It was probably, I would say, one of the two major shifts that changed the way I lead, the way I coach really, honestly, the way I do everything, the way I friend, the way I wife, the way I parent. Wow. All the things. Wait, was this
Anne: a quote that just knocked you off your feet?
Robyn: It started with that quote. Okay. Do you remember the quote? I remember the quote. I speak about it all the time. So yes, you wanna hear the quote? I would love to hear the quote. Yes. Tell me more. Okay, so it's to get to the next level of greatness depends on the quality of our culture. she's talking about any culture, whether it's the culture of the country, the culture of our church, the culture of our family.
The culture of our business, the office we work in, or the department we work in. So to get to the next level of greatness depends on the quality of the culture. Which depends on the quality of the relationships. Yeah, that makes sense. Which depends on the quality of the conversations.
So everything happens through conversation and that's the piece that, everything happens through conversation. 'cause my mind was around everything. I've got all these things to coach, but then when I came back to it all of those things really, your coaching conversations, your coaching communication, right?
Yeah. Really just, it cracks something open The other thing is it really demonstrates Why leadership isn't just really about a title or a role, but that mm-hmm. for all leaders, whether we like it or not, right? Yeah. Every single one of us in that leadership, it shows up in how we handle hard moments or conflicts or how we show up for others.
And probably most especially the way that we communicate for ourselves in our own brain in that conversation. at any rate, I started leading differently, most of all, probably less from a place of. Trying to have all the answers and more from a place of, curiosity, which is another great thing about CIQ.
It just really invites sort of that humble leadership and it helped me to understand that being a good communicator wasn't all about it still certainly is about, but it isn't just about clarity or persuasiveness. Obviously, certainly not about being articulate.
Anne: Yes.
Robyn: it was about being connected.
And When you start to view e every conversation through, that lens, as a reflection of your leadership, every conversation, then it changes how you coach, how you parent, how you partner, at least for me. Yeah,
Anne: I love that.
'cause I always thought it was about I'm thinking of my kids and I have three kids. I'm like, I'm telling you. And you know, you always think as a mom, if you just have said it a different way, they would've gotten it. And so there's so many things that we go through like that.
I'm just so many conversations and I think a lot of it. We are two steps ahead of where we need to be in the conversation. So That quote is beautiful. And I also love that you said that everyone is a leader and everybody has that ability to be able to transform their conversations into speaking like a leader.
It's not, we're not all born are we Leaders are, Mostly are made.
Robyn: I kind of almost feel like they get realized. And Acknowledged. if people start to realize, oh wait, even if I don't think of myself as everybody's leading themselves.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. If nothing else, you're leading yourself and other people are following you, whether you realize it or not, they're paying attention.
Anne: That's what's so good about the older, we get the sage leadership just naturally comes, we've had the experience.
it's really nice to be able to validate that because I, think everybody wants to lead. Themselves or the people in their little circle or a bigger circle or whatever. I, I really believe that is, true. So it's nice that to back that up with your science and your, information, but there's something you used to believe about communication and now that is completely changed for you over time.
I am very curious about what that was
Robyn: If I'm being completely honest, there's a lot of things, but what's beautiful is that at least part of this in my mind, connects exactly with, what you were saying around your kids. Like, I just thought if I am a little more clear, if I slowed down, if I say it louder, right?
Yeah, Yeah. Oh yeah. But really. the big one for me was my perspective around quote unquote common sense, right? That was always a big key phrase at the house. I grew up in common sense dictates or you know, oh yeah.
Yeah. used to think that what I believed was common sense. Like, of course people would understand what I meant. Oh, yeah. Or just see what I saw. I mean, It felt obvious to me that
Anne: used to say, who does that? I don't get it.
Robyn: Right. ' Cause common common sense dictates it's not common.
Yeah, exactly. Oh, this is good. my sister has, or she sent me a meme years ago. Right around this time when I was being certified. Common sense is so uncommon. It should be named a superpower or something like that. Yes. Yeah. I love that. But at any rate, over time and definitely through the lens of CIQ, conversational intelligence.
I've definitely started to realize that assuming people think like me, one of the biggest blind spots in communication. CIQ talks about five major blind spots, and that's definitely one of 'em. ' cause we all do it right? We just assume others, see what we see, feel what we feel value, what we value.
but obviously they don't, everybody's coming from their own experience and so what's. Interesting is that our brains are, wired to fill in the blanks, right? Based on our own experiences, obviously not on the other person's experiences. So when we're being listened to or when we're trying to listen to somebody else, we're not just hearing their words, but we're filtering it through all of our own personal history, our memories, our emotions all of the things.
And that's why one of the shifts for me has been that listening, not just to respond, but more so to make sure that I actually know what the other person means, not just what they said It is just a whole new way of doing that that I honestly just wasn't great at before and I'm still learning.
So, A big epiphany is The meaning doesn't live in the words of the speaker. We think that we say something to our kids. And there we go. They should gi it, but really it lives in the mind of the listener. So unless we slow down to check, to make sure that we have a shared understanding then we can walk away from the exact same conversation with two completely different realities.
So realizing that being a good communicator, it, it isn't about making a great point, which is hard for me 'cause I love to make a great point. But it was about the connection. It's not about being right again, hard. I love to be right.
Anne: Yep.
Robyn: But if you really wanna know how to influence an outcome long term, more than just winning that immediate battle, winning the conversation or whatever then, you have to know that it, it's about being in sync.
Then, it just changes how you show up for a conversation and show up for your team, your partner, whoever.
Anne: this totally makes me think about giving them the grace to be heard and they feel like they were heard. when I would be talking to some of my kids, I'd be like interrupting them.
I do that a lot. I give them words and then I just, think sometimes you just gotta sit back you know. Somebody said to me one time, take, act like you've got a blank tape in your head and that you're just taking it all in. And sometimes when I'm in a conversation, I go back to that.
'cause it's the only way I can keep blips together and not comment because I know. What is common sense, and I know the better path. And yet people like to discover their own path, right? And they don't, ask for your advice, it comes across as criticism.
And I am like, oh, well that's interesting. No, you knew I was so critical. I know. nobody ever asked me for my advice, so how do I get a chance to really impact my, children, my adult kids. But they've done great. gotta say, they, they all turned out just fine.
But, you know, you look back on some of those things, and it might've been easier if I would've taken your course. On positive intelligence and conversational intelligence, I think we can all learn something about that. And Never too old to start. Oh,
Robyn: absolutely not.
And even like in a in an office example, And I get this same thing but different all the time. So just like that meaning and the, Having that blank tape, having that idea of, let me go into this with the idea of discovery versus already knowing the answer or thinking I know the answer or their right answer or what, have you.
Right. So I remember a very specific example of working with a team where the doctor just kept saying, I want us to focus more on patient care. And of course everybody nods along, right? Mm-hmm. And he's, coming to me, he's saying, I, been just trying to get this across. And as we, dig more into it, and he's just getting more and more frustrated.
why are people not making changes? What do I have to do around here? But really, when we got to dig more into it, and we finally got to have a sit down team meeting, everybody thought that they were working on it. They just all had a very different idea of what patient care meant. Right? Oh, assistant.
For her, it meant being quicker. Like, Let's get 'em in on time and out on time. 'cause that was a big thing in their office is they weren't running wonderfully on time. And in her mind she was very punchable. She's like, that would be taking great care of 'em. Like, Get 'em in, get 'em out. Let's be quicker.
But, and yet to the front desk, it meant. Spending more time with each patient, like on the phone and taking great care and having longer, better conversations and to the doctor really what he meant, bottom line was doing more comprehensive diagnosis.
Anne: Okay? Right.
Robyn: So once we got to just slow down and got everybody aligned.
Obviously everything changed. Right everybody saw everybody else's movie of the mind. But it's like with kids, right? I need you to be more responsible. Do they hear what I really mean? I don't wanna have to tell you 12 times to do the same thing. Or do they hear, because I've also had this conversation.
I thought you meant I needed to be more perfect. I couldn't get anything wrong. I couldn't do anything wrong. Not exactly in that many words. Yeah. Yeah. I, I can see that. That's kind of good. Right? So yeah,
Anne: Being clear about that, and then also reminds me of one of the four agreements is.
Never make assumptions and that's another hard one. 'cause you know, when you assume that you know exactly where they're coming from and we don't. We don't, we don't listen. with curiosity and discovery with no judgment going into the conversation Exactly.
It's so hard. You gotta keep working on that for everybody. that does change everything as far as what communication is. And I think that when you're teaching it, it's gotta be an aha for all of your clients. 'cause for so long, you know, we thought of a communicator as somebody that really knows how to.
Talk. That's not it, right? it. It is really about somebody connecting. Oh my gosh. I do wanna start improving my communication today. What's the small shift I can make that will have the biggest impact on the conversations I'm gonna have this weekend?
Robyn: if I could pick just one.
I think, surmises everything that we've been talking about. And that is get curious what if our first instinct in a conversation wasn't to try to explain or to convince or to correct, but instead to, get curious to explore. Ask yourself, what might be going on here?
What am I missing? What can I discover? One of my favorite, also very humbling a stat that I learned through conversational intelligence. They did study outta Stanford University, and the conclusion was that nine out of 10 conversations missed the mark, meaning that the intent doesn't equal the impact.
90% of the time. Isn't that crazy? 90% of the time we're somewhere, our conversations, our interactions are somewhere on the scale of slightly distorted to completely misconstrued. So just knowing that I think, such a huge advantage. 'cause then we don't have to get upset or defensive when something misses the mark, we can be like, oh.
This is landing that's normal 90%, right? Yeah. Yeah. So instead of getting frustrated or defensive when things don't land like we expected them to land, then we can just instead take it as a cue. Okay, I need you to slow down. I need to get curious. Double click here. Like, What am I missing?
Where's the gap? you know? Where did this go wrong? And on the other side of it when you're the ones Going into it with, you know, in, in terms of sharing versus teaching. Yeah. Because we get really into that. Right. So when we shift from trying to get our point across to just simply sharing our experience or our perspective, then we're opening up communication and connection versus shutting it down.
Yeah. Get curious. Simple. It's easy, it's powerful. definitely, if you
Anne: can learn so much both ways, I mean, you're not only gonna be able to teach it's not subversive teaching, but it's like, you can get your point across, but you actually are learning along the way as well.
And I think that's really key. Facts tell. Stories sell. And I like the idea that you said be curious and then share from our experience. But we're not actually saying this is the right thing and this is the wrong thing from my experience.
this has happened or not. And then just let them make their own decisions, even in when you're trying to sell something to somebody, I think the story of how it helped somebody really resonates more than. the telling of, you need to do this. Yes, you need to do this. Yes, you must do this I can see how this can be certainly in a, dental office because they don't spend a lot of time having really strong, intimate, I mean Like when you really resonate with somebody, conversations 'cause they're busy and don't take the time for that.
So I guess. In the dental office Is it really important to carve out that time during the day or during the week or like morning huddles or where do you fit those kind of conversations in so that that assistant knows that it's not to be really fast? It's the patient care and, communicating with the patient that's sitting in the chair, take that time to, have them curious about what a full restoration or complete comprehensive plan would do for them.
Robyn: I think that's a great question, because that's always the pushback, but we don't have time for that.
We can't have a 30 minute sit down every time I, you know, dictate a new, or, you know, whatever new policy or a new thought that I wanna try. And. it's a couple of things. I think first of all not buying into the lie that it takes a lot of time because our mind will tell us, oh, I don't have time for that.
They just need to get it or understand it, and we maybe become more. you know, This is a dictatorship anyway. They just need to hear me. Well, It isn't even about that, I can think I'm being very clear, and maybe they don't even mind being bossed around, but they're really just not getting what you're laying down.
So I think it's more a habit of assuming that. You are in the 90% of conversations almost every time, right? Because you are, where there's some sort of misinterpretation or a gap in clarity of what you meant. What you intended versus what they heard. So instead of creating big blocks of time, which are also important, morning huddle, you know, the weekly, monthly, whatever, meetings. Absolutely. Those are important. But it's also the habit of stopping and checking consistently as we go. What did you hear me say? Wait, Wait.
What'd that mean to you? Okay so tell me what will be the first two things that you'll do to make that happen? how can you stop and check that you are on the same page or that they heard what you meant? Yeah. so just finding the one minute, the 30 seconds, you know, the four minutes, here and there, and if it's something particularly important to you.
then take the extra 60 seconds. Don't let your brain tell you you don't have time for this, because do you not have time that extra 60 seconds or 90 seconds now, or you know, how will that look when what you thought was now going to be the dictate going forward is completely off the rails and now you are weeks and months later and they're still not.
Taking great care of patients. Yeah. In the way that you thought that they would or shouldn't. Oh,
Anne: yeah. So simple to Knock that out in the very beginning so people understand. Yeah. That just makes so much sense. And it, helps everybody 'cause people want to do a good job. No one's in a dental office that is trying not to be a good employee, I don't think.
I mean, There's a few here and there, but it's almost like, they always say that. Peel the onion. it's like a little piece of onion every time. Did you hear what I said did you understand what I mean? And and know that the team knows not to take offensive that either.
So I think that's something because you can say, Hey, look, 90% aren't good. So look, let's really try to get to 80.
Robyn: Yeah. If we get that down by 10%, even if that statistic was way off even if it was 30% off, still half of our conversations are missing the mark.
So one thing that you said there just lit up another thought idea for me. Yeah. And that is when we are asking the questions, when we're stopping to, get curious, make sure that our visions align. And we're thinking the same thing. We're on the same page, yes. Asking questions, but asking questions for which you don't have the answers.
asking the open-end questions. Which sounds a little bit weird, but we tend to like I heard you say. Do you understand what I mean? Well, They think they do. So their answer's gonna be, yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. good catch. we tend to, do that like, that's what we lean on because without even thinking about it we're assuming they do, why wouldn't they?
It's common sense, right? Ah, yeah. And so, training ourselves, and it does take some training. It takes everything that I. Coach on doing better, I'm still working on doing better myself. So instead asking yourself, how can I confirm that they understand what I mean, instead of just asking 'em do they understand?
Does that make sense? Yeah. So it does take some training, but once you start doing it. gets easier and easier and easier. In the moment it takes less and less time. It's with anything else. It's a learned skill, it's a practice.
Anne: they're 75% good at their job everybody just needs a little tweak.
Right. So, And they wanna do what you want them to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, usually. Mostly. But it also reminds me of like, the lazy way to say, do you understand what I just said? And they say Yes, and they can walk away and they're like, okay, done. But if they have to repeat it back or say yes, but I thought that you.
Said, and then that's the conversation, right? that is the conversation, but getting it, yes. Yeah. The open-ended question. I gotta remember that one too. Yeah. Oh, there's so much I have to write. I'm gonna tattoo some of this stuff on my wrist, you know, so I can remember it when I go out in the world.
Robyn: So one thing I tell people about that, asking questions for which you don't have answers. Sometimes it's hard to come up with that on the spot, so I use the term double clicking if I like in the moment within a conversation, can't think of well, what's a question I don't have an answer for?
Because we kind of do that. We shake our head Yes. So you, you get it. You understand? And we think we know the answer. Yes, I understand. But all that to say, I, I coach something that I call double clicking or this is what I learned from Judith. Double clicking. Right. If I can't think of an open-ended question. That isn't kind of putting them in a hole or, or I don't have an expectation I'm trying to discover, you know? yeah. Okay. And understand like stand under their umbrella. Get their vision and, have them repeat back all the things.
Double clicking. I. So most people understand what it means. So like, Anne, if I were to ask you, if you were to double click on something
What does that usually mean to you? You're double clicking.
Anne: Just hitting it
Robyn: twice. Yeah. And to do what, because normally we're like on our computers and we double click
Anne: Oh.
To save copy. Understand.
Robyn: so that's true. You could double click to save and copy and do all those things. Good point. But a lot of times we're double clicking to get to the link to get more information or to know, get the definition of that word or to, go to the, article or, you know, blah, blah, blah.
It's to get more information. Tell me more.
Anne: Like, Tell me
Robyn: more about that. Yeah, so it's another way of just saying, tell me more about that. And people get it in the same way. If you say, tell me more about, if you say, can I just double click on that? People ride away know what you mean? You wanna go deeper.
You want more information, you're trying to fill in some gaps.
Anne: Yeah, and that's a great way to do it without putting people on edge. That's kind of cute. That's kind of like, oh, double click. Okay. I'm gonna double click a little bit when we get off here and just see how I can have that sit in my head then, that's a lovely thing to say, I like that. That's good for the docs and good for the team members. I guess. Can everybody, Can everybody use that?
Robyn: I mean, Everybody can do that, right? you know, real quickly in passing, Doc, can I just double click on that real quickly? I wanna make sure I understand what you're saying, right. is essentially what you're saying.
Anne: Yeah. That makes so much sense. Because why work on something that you, you hear this all the time. You put a whole, like a proposal or a keynote or whatever you're doing, you put it together.
Oh. I didn't mean that. that's not what I wanted. And then it's like you could save so much time and double clicking is just a very nice way to say, I just need to hear more information on that. very nice and respectful.
Yeah, it's a good one. It's a good one. Any parting, tips you have there, Robyn? And any more parting tips? ' cause I've, I got a lot today. I'm gonna be really good on my, I'm gonna be on my toes coming up this weekend.
Robyn: I would say if we're talking about specific conversations, going into it with three words in mind, your energy, your tone, and your intention, especially your intention, because if, nine outta 10 conversations, our intent doesn't equal our impact, if we're clear on our intention, then it's easier to check.
Did it make the impact we were looking for? And that also checks us, especially as an officially titled leader or a defacto leader that people come to, it checks our intention. It forces us into a better mental space potentially, because if my intention and is to get in and let you know that you screwed up and you should feel shameful and guilty and stupid, and blah, blah, blah, and yada yada, yada.
That's probably not gonna be really helpful. and how do I want you to feel and, leave, and what do I want you to do? So if my intention is to inspire you to do better, then what are my energy and tone gonna look like? Versus my intention is I want you to feel bad and go into a, shame spiral.
Anne: Right? Ooh that's, really good for, parenting and friendships and spouses. All this is just this. Flows over into all conversations that we have with the people that we love and wanna uplift. Yeah. Yeah. That's really good. So again, it was energy, tone and intention.
Robyn: Yeah. You want me to give you a great 12 second demonstration of how that sure matters. ' cause we can really say anything. Any of the same words. depending on what our energy tone and intention is, it can come out completely differently. So I can be, oh my gosh, gimme a break.
You're an idiot. Versus gimme a break. You're an idiot. Yeah, right. same words. really it isn't about what we say is it? It's our energy, it's our tone, it's our intention. Yes. That's the perfect, ugh.
Anne: Oh my goodness. That is great way to end this lovely podcast that we had today.
Robyn: Love me. That wasn't very,
Anne: no, that was awesome.
It just really gives us pause. I love that. We all want. Great intention. And we want, the best for people. And that's, you know, we've, we can do this, we can do that. That made it very simple. It may not be easy, but it's pretty simple, so I'm gonna remember that.
Those are easy to remember. Robyn, thank you so much for being with me today. It's great to get to know you a little bit better. Everyone's gonna get to know you at the retreat this year, November 13th through 15. 'cause you're gonna be speaking on. Positive intent and intelligence and conversational intelligence and all good things that we need to learn to live a great life and to do what we're meant to do in this life, for the, betterment of everybody.
So I just thank you so much and anybody that's listening today, remember ladies and gents to keep doing you and I'll see you next time. Thank you, Robyn. Thanks, Anne.
