Hello everyone, it's Anne Duffy and welcome to the Just DeW It podcast. I'm so happy that you're with me today and I have a very special guest. She's a dear old friend of mine and so bright and so amazing, and let me tell you a little bit about her. Before we get started, Kathryn Gilliam, B-R-D-H-B-A-M-A-A-O-S-H is founder of Perio Links and lead clinical coach At Inspired Hygiene, a passionate advocate for oral systemic health.
Anne: She educates and empowers dental professionals nationwide, an accomplished writer and speaker. Kathryn inspires excellence. In patient care through decades of clinical experience and ongoing professional leadership. That is you my dear. Welcome Kathryn. Thanks for joining me. Thanks Ann. I'm excited to be here today.
Oh my gosh. We go so far back. we met in a lobby at a hotel, I think it was Atlanta. we figured that out. That it was Atlanta. It was Atlanta. At the Hinman meeting. At the Hinman meeting and probably, I mean, I don't know, 22 years ago maybe, something like that.
Maybe 25. Maybe 25 Oh my gosh. I can still remember you sitting there. You were sitting in a chair and I came out and,Rachel Wall introduced us. Yes. And how ironic to bring that full circle. And now you're working with Rachel and Inspired Hygiene.
Kathryn: Yes. My gosh. Yeah. In fact, we were working together then, as part of Fortune Management and then split up, developed our own companies and got back together again and working together for inspired hygiene.
Anne: Oh my gosh. I didn't realize that. I knew that you were kind of involved with Victoria Peterson, I think at the time as well. Yes. Is that correct? Yes, that's right. Oh my gosh. But you've always inspired me and impressed me with. Your knowledge of the science behind dentistry, dental hygiene, all the,all the and the clinical aspect of it.
You're just really a profound professional for our community and beyond. And I've always, admired your ability to be able to put that together.
Kathryn: That's a really nice way to say geek or, yeah.
Anne: Yeah, exactly.
Kathryn:
Anne: Well, I loved your article too because, growing up I'm one of five and it's so interesting, Kathryn, this is just coming to me and ladies andand gentlemen, if you're listening to this, just a conversation.
But, you know, I had three brothers. I was the oldest girl an older brother, two younger brothers and a younger sister. And Beth and I, my sister. We're not really considered the smarty pants in the family. My brothers you know, they were the smarty ones. My one brother was a professor.
They called him the professor and things like that. And when I visited her and she pulled her strength finders out of her desk that she took like 15 years ago, we both were realized.Oh dang. She's the SmartyAnts in the family. So I immediately called my brothers and, gave them the low down on my sister.
But it's amazing how that mindset as a child stays with you your entire life. Which kind of brings me to your article that you wrote for our summer edition of Do Life Mag.
Kathryn: Yes. It was great to write that and put down in words my experience growing up because I think a lot of people can relate to that.
I'm one of three, the youngest, and, my sister, like my father has a photographic memory, so I was very quiet and nobody noticed that. I was pretty bright myself. I was considered to be very average and got, pats on the head. Kathryn is sweet, Kathy as they called me, which I didn't like.
she's very sweet and she's doing the best she can. Whatever it is, it's fine. And so I grew up thinking I was just very average and wouldn't amount to much, and it was later in school that I realized, wait a minute, actually, there's a lot going on up there that nobody's noticed. So it's very interesting that we in internalized the messages that our families give us and the identities that our families give us may not be really who we are.
Anne: And honestly, when you think about it, how old were you when you started to recognize that, Hey, wait a minute, everybody. a pretty bright ear. where was that in your,growing up?
Kathryn: I think it wasn't until high school. Yeah. And then I just started to achieve and then super achieve and, you know, it felt really, really good because I'd always been in my sister's shadow, we're close.
but I always, felt less than I tried all through elementary and junior high. I tried really hard because I wanted my parents, especially my father's attention, and I wanted to impress him, because he was so brilliant and it just seemed like I could never do enough. And so finally hit my stride in high school and in college and in dental hygiene school.
Things got better and better, but it was really a struggle for me growing up.
Anne: First of all, I, and a little side note here, you'll find this, that when you go to,read the article, but you,you got the highest grade of anybody in Your Dental Hygiene School, which was a big dental hygiene school back in the day.
Yes. I mean, congratulations. That's, the opposite of what I got. But I'm, I'm very, very impressed with that. And that would've,that would've been a,flag, if you will, that hey, you know, look at me. Look how smart I am. But the other thing that,actually struck me when you were saying that is, you know what's so powerful, Kathryn is.
It's great to be smart and have the photographic memory and all that, and everything comes easy and all that. When you take brains and work ethic and achieving mode and you put that together, that's when the true superpower really explodes. That's when the rocket ship takes off. So in a way, when they say it doesn't happen to you, it happens for you.
Maybe all those years now that you've come around to the fact that you recognize. What those saboteurs are, and we're gonna talk about that That's really what inspired this article, I believe. Is that true?
Kathryn: that's a lot of it. Yes. It was the fact that I pretty much flew under the radar in my family for a long time, and I worked really hard to get noticed, you know, and therefore loved.
So, you know, all those, things go pretty deep as we start looking. But also another thing that inspired the journey which inspired the article in Do Life, was that I had a friend of mine who noticed that my personality had changed. So the more I achieved, the more serious I became. And especially as I became a speaker, as I became a coach, I felt this real strong need to be very professional and to know everything.
But then I developed serious imposter syndrome because you can't know everything. so there was a lot of things going on inside of me. I knew I was smart, but I wasn't smart enough, all of that. So then I thought, well, if my personality is changing and I'm not sunny and fun to be with anymore.
I have to figure this out 'cause I still wanna be me and I wanna be happy. And so I started on whole path of sort of self-discovery and figuring out how to love myself despite the fact that I wasn't perfect and all of that.
Anne: you just gave us such a vulnerable piece. and I know that so many women will appreciate.
What you shared personally and then the professional geek side of you that brings in the science and just, you did all the research for us and the research behind it. it's just amazing. How old were you when you think this, started to really happen to you internally to realize that I need to work on myself and love myself more?
Kathryn: I really started it in my twenties. Okay. then through my thirties and forties, it just kept going. And still now, tell myself I'm not cured. I still have these voices. In fact, I was on a,Zoom meeting this morning and received a very beautiful compliment about my work and immediately said, oh, no, no, you know.
tend to dismiss and to minimize our strengths and our accomplishments. So it's still happening. It's still a habit that I have to work on. is been a lifetime really that I've this path. well, I think
Anne: understanding that that's the biggest first step you can make. And then it's just, you know, keep putting one foot in front of the other.
But I wanna go back a little bit to the article. We're just gonna tease this out so that people will go read it 'cause it's so in depth. I mean, I couldn't believe what you gave us, and I remember we're saying this, this is like a, another,700 extra words here. Kathryn, can you. Got this back to me.
She goes, no, you can't. And I have to tell you, Brian, our creative designer, He loved your article. He goes, it's his favorite article of all times, Kathryn he got to lay out because it was. Just like everything was just so easy to read and understand.
So you got Brian's high five for you. But I wanna ask a couple of questions here. What are some of the most common signs that someone is stuck in self-sabotage, especially when they might not realize it?
Kathryn: That's such a great question because, a friend of mine noticed it in me.
So you may notice it and bless somebody else by bringing it to their attention, but you'll see maybe some procrastination. Um. Some avoidance, especially of opportunities that could make them more successful or happier in their life in some way. Mm-hmm. They will avoid that. they may be undermining their relationships, because they think they don't deserve it.
They don't deserve to be happy. They don't deserve to be loved. You will hear negative self-talk, and that's of course something that my friends recognized in me or minimizing themselves. Sometimes too, people self-medicate, so we always think, oh, they're gonna be abusing drugs. They're gonna be abusing alcohol.
Sometimes it's food, but sometimes it's none of those things. Sometimes it's like scrolling on social media Maybe it's overspending. There's lots of different ways we sort of self-medicate to avoid the feelings. So those are some of the things you may notice in your friends.
Anne: That's awesome. And I loved how you said that maybe someone will bless you by recognizing in you and then what I would do then is like, let's point you to this article or to Kathryn Gilliam, because it sounds like, I mean, that would be such a blessing for somebody, you know, especially, you know, you look back on your life and you know, I'm looking back on my life My runway is behind me. I don't have much in,I don't have as much in front. And so the sooner that you can help somebody with that in a loving way and your voice is always so calm, I mean, I think you should do,you know, you should read children's books and, psychology books out loud.
'cause it is just, it's beautiful. You and, and Delaine have the best voices. I know you hear that quite often. But you talk about recognizing your saboteurs. I love saying that word. 'cause I had never heard that honestly until wasn't a mainstream word for me until you did a learning crew for us.
And actually, if you're a member, you can go back into your portal and find the learning crew, that you gave to all of us as a gift to us and blessed us with that. But talk about recognizing your saboteurs as the first strategy and learning to love yourself. You talk about this and can you explain what saboteurs are and how we can begin to identify them.
Kathryn: Yes. So I learned about saboteurs on my journey. I took a course, called Positive Intelligence, and there's a quiz online that you can take if you go to positive intelligence.com/saboteurs. You can take a free quiz and find out what your top saboteurs are. And what that is, is it's a way of personifying the negative voices in our heads.
So we all have the judge. And the judge is a pretty harsh critic. And I personify my judge, I told you on the learning crew that's nurse ratchet. she's mean, she's very mean to me. Some people's judge is very harsh with other people. My judge is harsh with me and most people's judge is harsh with them.
But then you'll learn about the other saboteurs and those are the negative voices in your head, so you may not want to or be able to recognize. For example, I recognized it was my mother who said I was shy all my life and told everyone and told me how shy I was and I was quiet. But I wasn't shy. I mean, my happy place is in the front of the room on the stage in the spotlight sharing with 2000 of my colleagues, right?
Yeah. I'm not shy,but that was the message I grew up believing. And so I chose not to accept certain opportunities because shy people don't do that. if we internalize those identities and messages from other people, we miss out on parts of our lives, that could be wonderful. so those voices in our heads, we have to begin to distinguish which voices are really coming from our hearts and which voices have been imposed upon us.
Hmm. So that's what the saboteurs are.
Anne: the shoulds, I guess some of that has to do with some of the shoulds and I'm thinking back, as I told you before we got started as a mom, there were some things that I said over and over again that they really, honestly.
Probably were ingrained in, especially our daughter, ingrained in her that really aren't true. And I was saying that to be lighthearted, like, oh, like your mom would say, oh, she's really shy. And I would probably say, oh, she's just really loud and full out and dialed up 10. I still say that. I'm gonna call her this afternoon we're gonna have a little chat because, relationships, especially when they're in your family, right?
It's just a journey. And we're all doing the best we can, but we can always do better. Like, we can always sear these things and find out about 'em. And I know, I love that you listed the saboteurs in your article and that's what somebody was trying to cut out. No, you can't.
You gotta keep all these in. So again, thank you for. Hey, you held your ground there. Did you see that? Yes, and I'm like, I'm surprised that you came back like that, but we honored it. We're like, don't mess with her. she's got her boundaries, and that's going in.
I just,
I love it. Lemme
Kathryn: tell you about that, Anne, because Okay. This is my year of being assertive because I have always been a people pleaser. I have always been putting everyone else's needs and opinions above mine. And, our dear friend, Dr. Hazel Glasper had a coaching session with me about that, and I've been working on that.
I grew up thinking if I asserted myself, if I said my opinion or my true feelings, well, my feelings were dismissed as a child. but if I dare speak those aloud, I won't be liked. I'll be rejected. And so my throat would close. I would never,be able to say my truth.
But Dr. Glasper coached me and I've been working on that. It is so empowering to say, no, I don't think you can cut my article, because we need every single precious word that I wrote. Now, there are many times that I've written articles that every word wasn't precious and needed to be trimmed. And I certainly have done that, but this article was different.
And so I really truly believed that. So I spoke up and it was so amazing to me that there wasn't additional pushback. There was acceptance. Who knew? Who knew that could happen? Right. Oh my gosh. And so that's very much a part of this journey.
Anne: Oh my goodness. That makes me so happy that you spoke up.
I'm so happy that our team. Heard you and listened, and they came back to me and said, no, we're gonna put this, well, we said, well, we'll makeroom for it then. And I just,isn't that beautiful? Oh my gosh. This is like, this is good. I'm gonna start crying right now. I'm just like, oh my God.
I'm just so happy about that.and look out world. Look out world because Kathryn is, is let loose right now. I love it, but ifthere's somebody listening, and I know there's so many women that listen to our,podcast and they,they wait for it comes out every other Wednesday.
If a woman listening to this feels like she's constantly self-sabotaging or stuck in self-doubt, what's the first small step she can take to begin the journey back to herself?
Kathryn: I really believe the first step is to be mindful and to get really quiet. To think about your thoughts and recognize what's going on inside your head, because those thoughts are typically automatic.
We don't pay attention to them. We just accept them and believe them. So you really have to get quiet and start thinking, wait a minute. I do deserve love. I do deserve to be heard or whatever it is that you're stopping in your life and not allowing to happen for you. Listen to the voices, figure out where they're coming from.
If you can take the assessment and find out your saboteurs. For me, it's been years of reading books and a little therapy and, a lot of self work. So the path could really take you down a very long path of work, and you may need professional help for some of it. But start with getting quiet with yourself and figuring out what you're telling yourself and where those voices are coming from.
Is that your judge or is that your sage? You know, is that the part of you that comes from love or is that negative and voices that are not even yours?
Anne: Oh my gosh. That is so beautiful and it's so hard to be quiet for ourselves and tolisten. And a couple of other things I wanna touch on.
We talked about also before we got started. That's what I love about Kathryn, because the dental entrepreneur woman, it's a community of,women that, we care about each other. We have, abundance minds and the fact that Hazel had so much love for you that she could reach out to you like that and that you had so much respect and love for Hazel that you would receive it.
And that is in our, circle. And the other thing I was saying too is that. Find out what your saboteurs are. And also, you know, we do a lot with strength finders I have loved that for the reason because it popped out to me when I took that assessment of the, my God-given talents what I'm really good at.
Because we can always beat ourselves up over what our weaknesses are, which really, if we focus on those, it just develops into this. Weakness in our confidence. now when I, you know, I'm buying a gift for somebody and they don't really like it, I don't take it. So personally, I'm like, well, I'm just really not that good at it.
It's not one of my strengths. It's, I have other gifts. Right. We have to start somewhere. And what you outlined in your article, there were so many that I was reading, I could see little things that I had said to others or have felt myself. it's just, I think no matter how you're feeling about yourself, you're gonna learn a lot about our communication and what we do.
and the fact that our words are powerful,
Kathryn: aren't they? Absolutely. Yes.Yes. And it's so important. I think for our self-growth and our self-esteem to be open to coaching. So, and I'm a coach myself of course. I'm open to coaching and grateful for any friends who say, Hey, you know, I see you're struggling, or, I see this is happening and that's not really you.
What's going on? it comes from a place of love, but it also comes from a place of courage because I could become very defensive. And reject that friend. Or it could become, a very negative thing. But when everybody is receptive to one another and when you realize that your friends are coming to you because they love you, the defenses fall away and you receive it and you grow and it's a beautiful thing.
Well, you are lighting
Anne: up.
So beautifully right now. I just, I love you and I just, again, world look out because armed now to be able to realize what your saboteurs are and that really it honestly doesn't matter what people said before. It only matters how you feel going forward.
It only matters that I think right now and understanding it that maybe in, I guess as a parent, we'd like to think, we say everything in love, but you know, we're,We're still learning as well, and oh my gosh, I just, I've loved having you on here, so I will tell everybody that's listening.
You know, to make sure that you go to do life DW Life, look at this summer edition. We've got Dr. Beautiful, Dr. Grace Yum on our cover, and it's one of my favorite editions. It's so good. And just a yummy edition. So grab your digital. iPad or get your print copy in the mail and take it to the beach or in the bathtub or somewhere, to learn about yourself and to learn about how we can even be better with others and our friends.
And I think after reading that, honestly, I'll be braver about going and approaching somebody that I see that might need a little bit of Kathryn Gilliam's advice in her life. Kathryn parting words and how do we get in touch with you?
Kathryn: Parting words are I'm thinking now of another friend who reached out to me, who's also a dew.
so I'll say real quickly, Janet Hagerman years ago, oh, 20 years ago, told me that other people's opinions of me are none of my business. Oh,
Anne: that's a good one.
Kathryn: Wow. Light bulb. So another do, right? Like
Anne: another do. Yeah. Take care of each
Kathryn: other. And I have loved being on with you. Always, always. Thank you.
Much fun chatting with you and being part of the community. you can reach me at [email protected] and I'm happy to talk about this or anything that I can help you with.
Anne: Oh my gosh. Thank you. And I can't wait to see you on the stage talking about this very thing because I think in dentistry.
we need a dose of self-love. it's a tough profession and especially right now. we'll get that self-love moving around our, industry and our profession. And it all stems from your beautiful article and your. Courage to be so vulnerable with all of us.
So thank you, Kathryn. I love you and I appreciate you so much. I love you too. And I'll see everybody at the Do Life retreat. We have seats available. We're not sold out yet, so get your spot in November in Charlotte, North Carolina from November 13th through 15th. We would love to see you there. We say good dues, find good dues, and we will all be together locking arms, brains, and hearts, for a couple days in Charlotte.
Just to make a difference, not only in our own lives, but in the lives of others. So everybody that's listening, remember, the most important thing is to keep doing you. Thank you so much, Kathryn, and I'll see you next time. I'll see you probably. Will you be at Under one Roof, by the way? Yes. Yay. see you there.
wait a minute, it's this week. Okay. We're inJuly here, guys. So we'll see you this week. Can't wait to see you, Kathryn. Take care. Safe travels. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
