Sandra: We dropped Delta Dental. We went out of network with all insurances. I was down to Premier, and everybody thought, “Oh, that’s great. It’s the higher-paying one. If you get rid of that one, then we’re going to lose so many patients. What if it doesn’t work?” I’m like, “Okay, what if it does work out?”
Anne: Oh.
Sandra: Let’s be positive. I love that line: What if it does work out?
Anne: Hello, everyone. It’s Anne Duffy, and welcome to the Just DeW It podcast. I am so happy that you’re with me today, and I have a brand-new friend that I met in Arizona. Women in Dentistry by Dr. Effie Habsha had a beautiful conference at the Spear Foundation. This beautiful DeW joined DeW right away because she’s so cool.
She and I had coffee one morning, and I told her a little bit about what we do, and she said, “How can I join?” And I’m like, “Oh, I would love you to join.”
But before we get started, let me tell you a little bit about her. Dr. Sandra Calleros is a Southern California dentist, practice owner, and proud grandmother who loves tennis, pickleball, hiking, and good country music.
Fun facts: she owned horses and motorcycles, which really fits her. No joke, no surprise over here. And yes, she’s been in the Pasadena Rose Parade. No surprise about that, either.
Please help me welcome Dr. Sandra Calleros. How are you, darling?
Sandra: I’m doing great. How are you?
Anne: I’m doing great. It’s so good to see you. We had so much fun meeting each other, and then I didn’t even have to twist your arm or anything. You joined DeW right away, Dental Entrepreneur Woman, because you are a dental entrepreneur woman, so of course this felt like a good fit.
Sandra: Yeah. Where were you when I first started practicing?
Anne: I know. I think it just takes a while to realize the pent-up demand for women coming together in community to bolster each other and help each other. Luckily, I hung up the phone one day, and I was mad my friend was bullied. Here we are, celebrating our 10th anniversary.
Sandra: Wow, congratulations. It’s just so nice to have these groups in this time, and there was nothing like it when I graduated. There was no support. We didn’t even have cell phones back then. Things were just really different.
Anne: That is so true. I am so proud of you. We talked before we got on about how you love learning, and obviously, because we’re looking at your strengths, Learner is one in your top five. So you’re constantly learning and pivoting because there are new things coming out in dentistry all the time, right?
Sandra: Yep.
Anne: One of your strengths is going down a rabbit hole. That is the basement of Learner, going down a rabbit hole and continuing to go. But it’s so wonderful because, being a dentist, you have to continue learning your entire life.
Sandra: Yeah. It takes time and energy, and I still love doing it. I just went to a big conference in Miami recently, and that was super fun. It was all cosmetic dentistry and veneers with Dr. Apa.
Anne: Oh, wow.
Sandra: Even at this point in my career, I think even after I retire, I’m still going to want to learn things. I don’t care what it is. I’ll take art classes, pole dancing classes, you name it. I just love to learn.
Anne: That’s all great. The one thing we did introduce to you was StrengthsFinder, Gallup StrengthsFinder 2.0. I was also saying before we started to record that you and I could be twins because we’ve got three of the top five. Your number one is Activator, then Positivity, Woo, Focus, and Learner.
A couple of things about your strengths and why you’re so cool: first of all, I heard this year that time is not the most important thing we have. Focus is.
Sandra: Mm-hmm.
Anne: That is something so key because even as a Learner, once you get all that knowledge, you have the tendency to take that knowledge, put it together, and focus on what you’re doing to make that one procedure excellent. You are not going to quit until it is just right.
Sandra: Yeah. I have to say, I guess I would be an implementer. I learn something, and I’m not just going to leave the notes in my drawer and bring them out six months later. I’m going to implement right away.
It’s been a little bit difficult with a team that isn’t on that same page. They’ve generally called me a racehorse, like, “Slow down, racehorse.” I just want to get in there and implement, and there are some people on the team who are very slow. They’re like, “Let’s start with this step, get that mastered, and then we’re going to master step number two.”
I’m kind of like, “No, let’s just get in there and do it. We’re going to pivot, and we’re going to change things. If it doesn’t work, we’re going to go this way, but we’re going to get there, and we’re not going to get there next year. We’re going to do it now.”
Anne: You just explained the balcony of Activator: self-starter, lights a fuse, quick decider, gets things started, and high-energy. That is your number one. That is you.
Now, maybe one of your team members—and this is why it’s really kind of important to give it to your team—might be Deliberative. Deliberative people are going to take a long time to say yes and do it. But when they finally buy in, you’ve already finished the race. It’s really hard to find that balance with an Activator.
Activator is in the influencing realm. One of the things I hope you learn from your strengths is that Activator is influencing. Positivity is relationship building. You have something in every domain. There is Executing, which would be Focus. There is Influencing; you have Woo and Activator in Influencing. You can get the troops rallied. You know all your neighbors and all the dentists in town. You know everybody.
Then your Focus will keep you in check. That is Executing. Learner is Strategic. You’ve got a really nice balance of all the strengths in your top five.
Again, with Woo and Activator—and Positivity is also an influencing strength as well, because who doesn’t want to be around somebody who’s positive? You can take any situation, Sandra, I’m pretty sure, and make it a good one. You turn it around, and it’s going to be okay.
Let me tell you what Positivity is: relationship building, enthusiastic, light-hearted, energetic, generous with praise, optimistic, fun, and uplifting.
Sandra: I like that.
Anne: Isn’t that fun? I love having Positivity. That’s my favorite strength because I feel like as an entrepreneur and as a dentist, it’s really nice to have Positivity because some days are not great.
Sandra: Yeah. I love when somebody says, “What if it doesn’t work out?” We dropped Delta Dental. We went out of network with all insurances. I was down to Premier, and everybody thought, “Oh, that’s great. It’s the higher-paying one. If you get rid of that one, then we’re going to lose so many patients. What if it doesn’t work?” I’m like, “Okay, what if it does work out?”
Anne: Oh.
Sandra: Let’s be positive. I love that line: What if it does work out?
Anne: Yeah.
Sandra: And now it’s been great. We are getting our full fees. If we want to give a discount, we can give a discount, but we don’t have to give a discount.
Anne: Wow.
Sandra: We have the freedom and the independence now. I had to drag them a little to convince them and be positive every day about it, but that wasn’t easy.
Anne: Now you can understand it, though, because you ooze Positivity no matter what. A lot of times, one of our children calls it toxic positivity because I can take every situation and make it positive. She’s like, “Mom, it’s toxic positivity. Let me be sad here for a minute.”
It’s really hard to see people be sad when you’ve already moved on like a racehorse, not only with your Activator but also with your Positivity. It’s so cool.
And then Woo—that’s my number one. It’s number three for you, which is very high in your top five. Outgoing, people-oriented, networking connector, and a rapport builder. Another great strength for building a practice because you’ve built rapport with many, many people. They come back, then they recommend their friends and their family, and they come back. You get to share their whole lives with them.
I love that you do babies, and you do geriatric. You do the whole gamut, the whole age group of people who walk through your doors.
Sandra: Yeah, and it’s just amazing to see a patient in the chair when I remember they were sitting in the stroller in the corner while I’m working on the mom. Now they’re all grown up, and they’re in college, getting married, and having babies of their own. It’s pretty incredible to stay for that length of time and be able to see that.
Anne: Yeah. I think that is why dentistry is so rich, right? That brings me to one of the questions that I’d like to ask you: Would you choose dentistry? Honestly, as smart as you are, and as engaging and fun and all these things, you could have done anything. I’ll say that right now, Sandra. Would you choose dentistry again as a career, and why?
Sandra: I would choose dentistry for myself. I love it after all these years. I think it’s a great profession for women because you can set your own hours.
I knew way back when that I didn’t want to be a doctor who worked in a hospital. I didn’t want to have to work nights, Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays because I knew I wanted to have a family. I also knew that I wanted to have my own thing. I didn’t want to work for somebody else. I wanted the independence and the creativity to be able to create my own thing. I don’t like people telling me what to do.
Anne: That’s because you like to go fast and furious. That’s cool because I think one of the best gifts an entrepreneur can have—and you’re an entrepreneur, a dental entrepreneur woman running your practice and owning your practice—is Positivity. It is such a great strength.
Honestly, I think I may have told you this, Sandra, but these are God-given talents. It’s like He gave it to you in the womb. He knew what you were meant for, and I believe that. When I took Strengths the first time, it was in our parish, and that was the whole gist of it. It was all about God-given talent. I took it 18 years ago and believe in that.
But as an entrepreneur running a practice, as a female general dentist back in the day, you had to have Positivity, and that has kept you loving it all these years. I’m sure the road hasn’t been smooth sailing, as it isn’t for anybody who is an entrepreneur.
Sandra: No, definitely not smooth sailing.
Anne: But you always bounce back, and you’ve built this great practice. I’m proud of you, but I know you should be very proud of yourself because back in the day, when you first started, was it easy?
Sandra: No, I would have to say it wasn’t easy. How I got started was, I graduated dental school, and the only jobs you could really get when you were new—at least for me—were in the big clinics, the HMO clinics. So I started doing that, and I was not happy at all. I hated it.
I didn’t feel like it was ethical for the patients. It was high-volume. I didn’t like the way they were billing. The pay was really bad. I just thought, “I didn’t go to school for eight years to work in this kind of environment. I want something better for myself, and I’m going to have it one way or another. If I can’t have it in dentistry, I’ll just quit being a dentist and go sell shoes.”
I got the Yellow Pages out, and I started calling dentists. I was living in Manhattan Beach, so I started calling the local dentists from the Yellow Pages.
Anne: Wow.
Sandra: One of them said, “Well, I’m not hiring anybody, but you can just come over. I’ll talk to you.” So I went over there, and it turns out that this person ends up being my future husband. He’s a lot older than me. He’s a dentist with an established practice. He says, “I don’t need an associate, but if you want to start doing hygiene...”
So I was like, “I’ll do hygiene. I want to work in a nice practice. I don’t care. I’ll just do hygiene and then slowly build up my own patient base.”
We ended up getting married and having two kids, but it turns out that he was kind of a domineering person. I was a lot younger. He was older, and we ended up getting divorced.
Since it was his practice, it was hard for me because I didn’t know where to go. I had my little tiny patient base, but I didn’t know what to do. It was confusing and really hard.
So I kind of bounced around and bounced around, and it wasn’t until I was 50 that I built my own practice and had my own location. That was 2011, and I was 50 years old. I haven’t really had my own practice—I mean, I’ve had my own practice, but not my own location—until I was 50, and I’m going to be 65.
Anne: Wow. You’re beautiful. That is super cool. I love hearing that, though, Sandra, because I think women today feel like if they’re 50, they should be in a certain place, right? And that’s not true. I was 62—I tell everybody this—I was 62 when I started DeW.
Sandra: Amazing.
Anne: You just keep doing your stuff and doing what feels right. I love that you followed your heart and the integrity that you had from the very beginning. It was what was right in your mind.
It’s not too late. “Okay, I’m going to do that at 50.” That’s why you still love it, and that’s why it’s your third child, I guess, at this point, because you own it and you’ve built it. Kudos to you that you’ve done so well with that.
I think there are a lot of young women listening to this today who are saying, “Okay, give me some advice. I’m a new dentist. I’m just getting out of school,” or, “I’ve been in a DSO, possibly working for one, three, four, five years, and I’m ready for something new.”
What advice would you give them?
Sandra: I think it’s also important to know and find out what you don’t want.
Anne: Yeah.
Sandra: If you work in those places, you know, “Okay, I don’t want to work in a high-paced, high-volume practice that doesn’t have a lot of integrity or isn’t very ethical.”
I think you need to hopefully find a mentor who’s doing what you want to do, something you can aspire to, somebody who will inspire you and mentor you. I can’t say I had that, but if I had, I think it would have been so helpful.
So find a mentor. Don’t cheap out on CE. Go to Spear. Go to Kois. Get some really good CE because I think when you have knowledge, that gives you confidence. It’s also experience, too. Just keep one foot in front of the other. Just keep kicking that can down the road.
And I think find a coach. I’ve had a coach since 2014.
Anne: Okay.
Sandra: I’m still working with a coach at my age. I feel like until I’m done with dentistry, I need my coach, Bethany. She’s a dentist who only does coaching now, Bethany Piziks.
Anne: Oh, yeah. I love Bethany Piziks.
Sandra: You know her?
Anne: Yes, I know Bethany. She’s awesome. And she’s a horse person.
Sandra: Which is how I got connected with her. I listened to a podcast, and she was talking about horses. Since I’m a horse person, I reached out to her. I go, “This is really interesting.” And she goes, “Well, would you like to come in for a session?” I said, “Okay.”
So I flew to Scottsdale, and I had a session with her. She’s been my coach ever since, and I love her. She’s helped me through so much.
Anne: Oh, yeah. She’s just great. Well, you better tell her when we get off this. This is how DeWs work, right?
Sandra: I told her I was going to be on the podcast. I think she said she was a DeW at one point.
Anne: She was a DeW, and then she got with GNOME or CALM or something like that, and then we kind of lost touch. But she knows me really, really well. Tell her I said hello. I’d love to welcome her back. You guys need to come to the retreat together and room together. Wouldn’t that be fun?
She would love our 10th anniversary because Bethany was with me right in the very beginning, and then she moved on. There’s a season for everything. You’re never leaving, though. Once you get into our little thing here, we’re going to take good care of you.
Please give her my love. Coaches are so amazing in dentistry, aren’t they? I love that you said you need a coach. It’s never too soon to get a coach. You make mistakes accidentally out of just trying, especially when you’re an Activator, because we make a lot of fast decisions, right?
Sandra: Right.
Anne: And we can pivot, too. We make fast decisions to get in and fast decisions to get out. But a coach sometimes will say, “Whoa, Nelly. Let’s slow down a little bit there.”
Sandra: Yeah. Put the whip down.
Anne: Yeah. That still makes me so happy. That’s principle number three: Good DeWs find good DeWs. It’s no surprise that your coach is somebody I know, and I just love her. That is super cool.
Sandra: Yeah. It is. She helps me so much to this day.
Anne: I love it. So what’s your best and least favorite part about owning a practice?
Sandra: I think the best part is just providing an extra-special space where people go, where my team goes. We live there many days of the week. A good part of our lives, we’re there. I’m proud that I’ve created a practice that my team loves, and I love that I created a place my patients love.
I have a practice with a lot of walk-bys. I call it walk-by traffic. It’s right on the street, and it is sandwiched between three restaurants. I love when I’m sitting in my office and I overhear a patient who just walked in say, “Hey, how are you guys doing?” and everybody’s hearing the laughter.
Having a happy place where patients are confident in our work and appreciate our work, being able to do that, is just really rewarding.
Anne: It’s like your home. It’s like you open the front door and immediately get a feeling of, “Oh, I could spend a little time here.”
And you’re very cool that you have a walk-by location because I think you should never underestimate the signage from a walk-by or a drive-by dental office. So often, they’re in a big building, and you have to do so much marketing to get that done. You’ve got people walking in off the street if it looks inviting.
Do you like decorating? Is that a beautiful space for you? Is that part of it?
Sandra: I don’t think I’m good at it myself, but I had an interior designer make my office beautiful. Even back when I opened it, I told the designer, “I want it to be more like a spa. Pretty, I guess more feminine.” A pretty-looking office. I didn’t want it to be black and gray or sterile, like what you have as a typical male practice.
Anne: We do love our men, but we have an eye for beauty. I think women do have an eye for beauty that sometimes is lost on the male gene.
Sandra: Which also helps in cosmetic dentistry. I think dentistry is still a great profession. Find a mentor, do it a certain way, get intentional, get your coach, get your CE.
I think it still takes years of experience, and I think that’s why we call it a practice. There’s never an end point where you can say, “Okay, that’s it. I’m the perfect dentist. I’m done.”
Anne: Yeah.
Sandra: You’re not. You’re going to keep learning, and you need to keep learning. You keep getting better every single year.
Anne: Well, that’s probably why you like it so much. Again, looking at your strengths, you’re a Learner, and you’ve got to learn. You’ve got to keep learning as a dentist or anybody in a profession like that. It would be really hard if it was not something you wanted to do because you have to be good. You’ve got to keep that going.
A question popped into my mind: How many women were in your graduating dental class?
Sandra: That’s a good question. When I graduated, there were maybe 20 to 25% women. For women who are still practicing at my age, it’s probably one in five. Now I think it’s, what, 50% of the class or higher? That’s been pretty amazing to watch, that evolution and the tides changing over the years. It’s pretty incredible, taking charge of dentistry.
Anne: I love it. You’re a trailblazer, actually. We have a documentary that we just played at the Hinman, and Sharon Parsons—I think Sharon is just a year or two ahead of you. I want to introduce you to Sharon. She’s amazing. She is still practicing and still loving it.
Back in the day, again, the hardships of not being able to get a loan, not being referred to, all of those things as women. In fact, somebody had said to her, “Why do you want to take the seat away from a man?”
Sandra: Oh, God.
Anne: California is a little bit more progressive on that end. But 20%—you really were not the norm. And yet, it lends itself to feminine intuition, beauty, and all those things.
I also love that you’re helping women with the babies. What were you talking about with the babies? The tie?
Sandra: Tongue-tie. All the sleep training led me to be a provider doing infant tongue-tie releases. If a baby has a tongue-tie, it can make it difficult for breastfeeding, for the baby and the mom.
Anne: The thing about it is, Sandra, that you learned that from your research and all that, and now you’re doing it. But do you know how many moms have you seen with their babies who don’t even know that’s the problem and have gone through all of this?
Sandra: I was one of those moms who had problems with breastfeeding. I had mastitis. My daughter was colicky, gassy, crying all the time. I didn’t know to check for a tongue-tie. Even today, a lot of people don’t know about it.
Anne: I know it. I think that is another really cool thing that you’ve taken into your practice to do on your own. You’ve really taken the time to learn about it. That’s a gift for a mom because mostly we blame ourselves if something’s not working. A simple procedure—I just think that’s really neat that you’ve recognized that, and that’s a part of your practice.
No wonder they keep coming back to you time after time, and you see those kids grow and have kids of their own and all of those beautiful parts of the relationship part of dentistry, which is just so beautiful.
Sandra: One thing I remember, going back to how it was: I remember he was an accountant, like a specialized accountant—or he might have been an attorney—and he told me I needed to cut my hair. My hair was too long. In order to be taken seriously, I needed to cut it. And I still have not cut my hair.
Anne: Look at the two of us. My hair is so long right now. I actually do need a haircut.
Sandra: I don’t have as much as I used to, but it’s still there.
Anne: It’s gorgeous. This is the thing, even with knowing your strengths and knowing what you’re really good at: Did you get all 34, or did you just get your top five?
Sandra: I just got the top five.
Anne: Okay. There are 34 strengths that they measure, and they’re still there. You could just pay another $30 or $40 and get your 34. It’s fun to see what’s dead last because then you’re going to give yourself some grace about, “I’m not good at that.” That’s to give to somebody else who has that strength, right?
But it’s like, do you. If you’re listening, we love ending this podcast with the mantra of, everybody, keep doing you. If you want to have long hair and you want to play pickleball, and you’re going to go to Coachella or you’re going to watch it on your... It’s time for women to take a stand and do us, and do you, because we are pretty phenomenal.
What parting advice do you have? I know you’ve got a lot in front of you. I know eventually you’re going to sell your practice. I’m sure there are a lot of people who would love to buy your practice. You’ve got a great location.
Sandra: Fee-for-service. I’m not contracted with any insurance companies anymore.
Anne: It’s fee-for-service.
Sandra: Patients pay because they want to come. They’re not coming in because they found me on their plan. They’re coming in because they have heard about the practice, the high quality, the attention to detail, and it feels like family in our practice.
So yeah, I was going to sell my practice at the end of the year. This was the year I was supposed to be working for an owner part-time to get ready for that.
Anne: Man plans and God laughs. Continue.
Sandra: Yeah. The sale of the practice didn’t go through for various reasons, so here I am in 2026, working full-time again. Loving it, though. I really do.
I guess I’m kind of a control... I like the control. Being there every day gives me 100% full control. I’m seeing patients I haven’t seen in a long time because they would come on the days when I wasn’t there. That’s been kind of cool.
I told my team at the beginning of the year, “Our slogan for this year is”—excuse my French—“Let’s fucking go, 2026,” with three exclamation marks. So we say, “LFG.”
Anne: LFG. 2026. I love it.
Sandra: We’ve just ramped it up, and we’re going really strong. But at the same time, my lease is up at the end of the year. I’m going to be 65. I love spending time with my grandkids. I love riding horses. I love playing tennis. I love going out to the desert. I’ve always made time for fun, no matter what. I’m at a point where I have to decide what I’m going to do because my lease is running out, I’m going to be 65, and I’m going on Medicare this year.
Anne: Wow. I think it will be revealed. You’ve built something really strong. You’re ready for a little bit more time to have more fun—not that dentistry’s not fun, but sometimes, again, your plan just wasn’t ready. Now it’s kind of cool. You’re forced to maybe go back and reboot just a bit.
The joy of seeing somebody you haven’t seen for a couple of years and catching up, and then they go, “Oh my God, you’re going to see me today.” I can just see that that is really beautiful.
Sandra: They’re also saying, “I’m so glad you didn’t retire. I’m so happy. I want you to be my dentist. Don’t ever retire.” That is the biggest compliment right there, when a patient knows you’re thinking about retiring or planning on it, and they say, “I’m so glad you didn’t retire.”
Anne: That’s a lovely way to exit 2.0. You’re in control right now. You make those decisions, and it’s all going to be great. The timing for that, I think, will be perfect.
Fun fact: my mantra this year, which you will love, and again, I think we could be twins with different mothers, is “Giddy up.”
Sandra: Wow.
Anne: Mine is “Giddy up.” First of all, it’s the year of the horse. I just found out at the end of last year that that was the year of the snake, and I was glad I didn’t know. I don’t like snakes. I’m allergic to them, I think.
Sandra: Shed the old stuff.
Anne: Yeah, get rid of the old, shed it. And the horse, I’m like, “Giddy up, girl. This is it.” I’m 72. I’m going to be 73. But then again, I have to tell you, Sandra, you’ll do something else because DeWs don’t retire. It’s principle number nine: Start and don’t stop. DeWs don’t retire.
I don’t know what that looks like for you. You’re going to have so many courters, I guess, people courting your practice. Fee-for-service in California? Hello. Where is it? In Southern California? Whereabouts are you?
Sandra: Close to the beach. We’re a beach town. I’m in El Segundo, which is right next to Los Angeles International Airport. It’s a little town.
Anne: Oh my gosh, cute little town. Now I wish I was a dentist, so I’d come over. You never know who’s going to hear this podcast.
How do we find you? Let’s go there, and then we’ll wrap it up. How does anybody find you? Number one, if they just want to reach out, if you’re a DeW and you want to talk to Sandra, please let her know. Also, how does anybody in this world find you, Sandra?
Sandra: You can email me at sandicalleros@gmail.com. S-A-N-D-I-C-A-L-L-E-R-O-S at Gmail. If you want to text me, I don’t care. My cell number is 310-200-1958. That’s 310-200-1958. That’s my personal email and my cell phone.
Anne: That’s pretty strong, everybody.
Sandra: Send me a text or call me. Whatever you want.
Anne: If you want to have that discussion, I’m telling you, this is the best commercial we could ever do. Come on, everybody. Let’s go. What is it?
Sandra: I love “giddy up,” though. That could have been mine.
Anne: It’s a little cleaner than yours. It’s a little less, you know. What’s yours? What’s the acronym?
Sandra: LFG.
Anne: LFG. Let’s go. Let’s fricking go.
Sandra: Let’s fricking go. I’m with you.
Anne: Okay. Cheers to both of us. I love meeting you.
Sandra: You’re the fire horse, not just the horse. It’s the fire horse.
Anne: I think we could ride that race together, my dear. If you’re listening to us today, remember the most important thing you can do is to keep doing you. Sandy, we’re going to keep doing us, okay?
Thanks for having the time today for me and for our listeners. I loved having you on this podcast, and I will see you next time.
Sandra: Thank you so much. It’s been fun.
