Sonia: It's an art to learn to let go. The way to delegate is an art, and learning how you need to be communicated with is what allows you to have the freedom that letting go creates. I think that is really hard for a lot of people.
Anne: Hello, everybody. It's Anne Duffy, and welcome to the Just DeW It podcast. I am so happy that you're with me today because I have a dear friend and walking buddy on the broadcast with me. But before we get started, let me tell you a little bit about her.
Sonia Chopra, DDS, is a healer and a tooth saver. She's a board-certified endodontist, TEDx speaker, Forbes contributor, author, endodontic instructor, and founder of Ballantyne Endodontics in Charlotte, North Carolina. She also hosts the podcast University of Why and is a sought-after speaker and thought leader in dentistry.
She is a Sagittarius and an extroverted introvert, and her top five strengths are activator, focus, futuristic, significance, and achiever. If that ain't you, I don't know who is. Please help me welcome Dr. Sonia Chopra. Hello, Sonia.
Sonia: Hello, my beautiful friend. It is so wonderful to be here with you today.
Anne: Oh my gosh, and you're just coming off a month-long vacation. Tell us, how was that vacation, and why did you do it?
Sonia: That's a great, loaded question that I'm going to answer. It’s going to take me a while, but I have committed to taking one month off in my calendar year because I'm a busy lady, and the only way for me to shut off is to get out.
I came up with this idea in 2019. I was in burnout in my practice in 2016, and it took me a few years to figure out a way to get out of that. I learned from a lot of people that the best test you can do for yourself to see if your business is healthy and if it can survive without you is by taking a month off.
I tested it, and it was pretty good the first time I did it. But the feeling I got being a month away with my family made me realize that I didn't just do it to see if I had a healthy business. I really did it to connect with my family because I can't shut off easily. I'm pretty sure most DeWs have a hard time shutting off.
But this was not just a test to see if my business could run. This was a test to see if I could turn off, really be present, and truly have fun with my family. The five of us realized that this was the most valuable time. I love teaching my children through experiences, and I love that when we travel, my children hold my hand as we walk around a new country. It is my favorite part when they grab my hand and just want to walk with me.
I've done it every year since. I've taken the month of July off. I didn't do it last year because I was building my house, and when I was stuck here in this humidity in Charlotte, I realized never again. I just landed back. We went to Greece, we went to Estonia, which I love. That place is kind of off the beaten path, so people are like, “Why did you go there?” We also went to Paris, and I'm back. I've already taken the time off for next year, so I can't wait to go next year.
Anne: Oh my God, you're so much my hero. I just said to you before we started, “I wish I would’ve even thought about this 30 years ago.” If you're listening, it's not too late. I'm going to take the month of December off.
It's so funny you say that. Carla, our director of operations, said to me the other day, “Anne, you should take December off,” because it's going to be after the retreat. The retreat is all focused. It's like having another huge wedding in Charlotte, and you have just inspired me. I'm going to do it. I'm going to test it just to see if I can do it.
Let's talk strengths. I can't tell you how many DeWs have achiever and activator in their top five, and almost everybody has them in their top 10. It's incredible that we are doers. We love it. Until you leave your surroundings and get away, Karen Tindall says it takes eight days to actually find that peace of, “Okay, I'm here. This is where I'm supposed to be, and I can do anything I want.” It's something special.
Sonia: You'd be surprised how, if you force yourself to take more vacations, that time shrinks. It takes me about eight seconds now. When I get there, I'm like, “I'm out. I'm done. I'm going to enjoy this vacation.” And speaking of Karen, by the way, she is the one who planned the Greece portion of my trip, so I'm going to give her a shout-out. The Greece portion of my trip was chef's kiss. Amazing. If anybody wants my itinerary, reach out to Karen Tindall because she's got you.
Anne: She is so funny. How fun is that for all of us? Talk about someone who pivoted. She did, and she loves it. She's doing everybody's trips, and I love it. She's going to do one for us coming up in December, actually. It's small, but it's happening.
Sonia: You have a team.
Anne: Yeah.
Sonia: One of the things I notice is that the reason people can't “take off” is because they don't trust. It's hard for them to delegate. It's hard for them not to micromanage. I was a major micromanager for a very long time, and it took me a lot to let go of that mindset and say, “No, my team has got this.”
There was a social media trend going on while I was away, so I took a few pictures and sent them to them. I said, “Here are some awesome new photos of me on my vacation. Use them for the new trend.” I wanted them to see that I was having fun, and they could do something with that and put it out to the world. It was a win-win for all the things.
I think it's an art to learn to let go. The way to delegate is an art, and learning how you need to be communicated with is what allows you to have the freedom that letting go creates. I think that is really hard for a lot of people.
Anne: Yeah. Kudos to you, too, because I've met your team, and they've been with you for so long. You don't only have team members in your dental practice, but even your family members are on board for a lot of the stuff that you do. You have a way of having people stay with you because you've built a culture of trust. You trust them to do what you have given them.
Of course, it takes a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to get to that level. When you start your own business, you are spinning all the plates yourself. But to really be able to say, “We've got a business,” we have to be able to test the waters and build a team.
So I will follow in your footsteps, my dear. I'm going to try to live up to that.
Sonia: I can't wait to hear all about it. And you know what? I'm going to give you a little grace because the first time you do it, you're going to want to check in, and that's okay. The goal is that the frequency of the times you check in decreases every time you do it.
Anne: Yeah. Your business is still living. You have E-School, and it's on rocket fuel right now. How many years have you had E-School?
Sonia: I launched my first E-School class in March of 2019.
Anne: Okay.
Sonia: What's really cool is that I just launched a new program called the MB2 Method. It's all about finding the MB2 and mastering the MB2. It's a tiny, bite-sized course because after teaching E-School as a whole for seven years now, I realized that a few topics keep coming up, and one of the biggest ones is MB2 canal mastery.
Anne: I was going to say, I didn't even know what MB was. I'm so terrible.
Sonia: No, I saw the question on your face, so I was like, “Okay.” The MB2 is the number one missed canal in all of endo, and it's the number one thing that a lot of dentists are like, “I just want to master the maxillary molar and the MB2 canal.”
I kept hearing this over and over, and I thought, “E-School is going to be the only course that I provide.” Well, right before I went on this trip, I came up with the idea of creating a new course. It's a smaller, more bite-sized course for people who just wanted to be focused. They're like, “I don't want all the other stuff. I just want this.” So I'm like, “All right.”
Anne: That makes perfect sense. If it gets too complicated, then let's call Dr. Chopra to do this, right?
Sonia: There are some people who feel like they really know endo, but they're still kind of stuck on this one thing. So I created this course for them. It's also a deep dive, so it's really still good for anybody, even people who have taken E-School. But it's such a great course. Now I'm writing my next course, so I'm realizing I'm not done creating more educational content, which is super exciting.
Anne: Just to be able to think about that in your downtime, sometimes you have to slow down for those kinds of ideas to rise to the top, right?
Sonia: I get too many. Then I'm like, “Okay, stop. No more ideas.” I can jot them down and put them in a journal, but then I have to stop ideating and say, “Okay, if that's a thing, then I'm going to make this thing and forget about all the rest.” But yes, when I'm on the beach.
Anne: Yeah, when you're on a beach. But don't forget, you're futuristic.
Sonia: I know.
Anne: So you're always thinking about the future. But the other cool thing about you is that focus is number two. Can you imagine what a great endodontist trait that is? Focus. You really have to focus.
I think I've told you this before: focus is the new time. If you can focus on one thing and really build that thing to the best it could be—not perfection, but the best it could be. For me, I don't know where focus is in my strengths. I'd like to see because I'm like a squirrel. I'll do 10 things at one time. I do get them all done, but it's not like what you can do with focus.
Sonia: I think that's what's made me a completer. I take things to completion, and I get them out into the world. A lot of people have been saying this to me: “That's one thing that you inspire me with, Sonia. You get things done, and you push it out into the world.”
I'm going to say one thing about perfection: if you try to make it perfect, you're never going to get it out into the world.
Somebody taught me this a long time ago. They're like, “Launch it as a B- and then refine it along the way. Get it out into the world as a B- and perfect it along the way.” That really helped me. That mindset helped me because it's like your wedding. You want it to be a certain way, and then things go wrong. But nobody who's experiencing your wedding had any idea, right?
Anne: Yeah.
Sonia: I have this perfected vision of what I want this product to look like. Nobody else knows, but their experience is still so beautiful, and I can make that experience more beautiful along the way through feedback. “Oh, they said this. That's a great idea. I didn't even think of that.”
You get so much through feedback that I'm like, “Okay, I'm just going to get this done as is, and I'm going to let my audience tell me how to make it perfect instead of nailing it right away.” It's already got so much value, but I'm going to perfect it along the way.
But I will say one of my strengths, and I've been told this by so many people, is that I'm a completer. I find that's where so many people in the world get stuck. I have a lot of friends in this situation right now. They have all these ideas. They want to make a pivot in their life, and they don't know how to do it. They are like a squirrel because they take this course and this course and this course. They think they need to know all these things. They think they need to master social media to get this and that, and actually, you don't. You just have to find a way to be a completer, and it might take a little bit of focus.
It's one of my superpowers, and I think I might start helping people with that part of their life.
Anne: I think you could be a good coach. I can't tell you how many women have these ideas, and they just sit there and wait for it to be perfect. That's principle number nine for DeW: start and don't stop. You just have to get off the side. You're right. I love the idea of starting with a B- because anybody in dentistry knows a B- really wasn't quite good enough, but it is good enough to start.
Sonia: It is good enough because we are dentists, and we're so picky, Type A, and anal. Our B- is the majority of the world's A+.
Anne: Yeah, absolutely. That is true. Sonia, I think so many people kind of misunderstand you. I know you so well, and I adore you. You're so fun and vibrant and all of those things. But what do people misunderstand about you often?
Sonia: I think it's really easy to judge somebody from what they see online, on social media, or whatever. People develop a reputation over time, and I am a little bougie. I think that's okay, but I'm also not. I don't think people can see that side of me until they actually get to know me.
I have a hard shell but a very soft center. I tell people, “Yeah, maybe I want to go to the Four Seasons and sit on the beach, but I am totally happy on that beach with chicken tenders and fries.”
Anne: Yeah.
Sonia: I'm actually a very simple person. I'm very grounded and down-to-earth, but I think a lot of people can think that I'm a diva or something like that. But I'm really not. I'm actually one of the funnest people to hang out with.
Anne: Yeah, I've noticed that. It's just so funny. I don't know what it is. I guess it's because of the way you present, the way you walk, and all those things. People think, “She's all that and a bag of chips. She wouldn't want to talk to me.” I remember the first time we talked, and you were like, “I want friends. I want people to reach out to me.”
Sonia: I do. People also assume that you're really busy because you're posting. I haven't even finished posting my vacation yet. I'm actually posting it now, and I've been home for two weeks. So people think that I'm out gallivanting more than I actually am, and they make this assumption that you're busy.
I would say that's been the hardest part of being an entrepreneur. People stop inviting you and stop calling you because they make this assumption that you're busy. There's nothing more that I want than tight friendships and close connections, and for people to reach out and say, “Hey, do you want to hang out? Do you want to go for a cup of coffee? Do you want to go for a walk?”
Like my friend Anne, we go for walks, and my answer is usually always yes. Right now, it's back-to-school time, so I might be a little bit busy getting my kids all set up. But for the most part, I'm not that busy. I'm actually not that bougie. I like a good hotel, and I like business-class seats, but I'm also very grounded. I can be super chill, relaxed, and a great person to travel with. Just easy-peasy. It does not take much.
Anne: Easy-peasy. I would describe you as that. But again, it's something about the hard shell, soft center. You're like an M&M, and that's delicious.
Sonia: Chocolate-covered marshmallow.
Anne: Ooh, okay. That's good. I love it. Nothing like a good chocolate-covered marshmallow.
Sonia: I love a chocolate-covered marshmallow Santa at Christmas.
Anne: Okay, you heard it here.
Sonia: My kids buy me that and put it in my stocking.
Anne: Love that. You heard it here first.
There are so many things you could be doing with your strengths, all the interests you have, and the interesting life that you've led. If you weren't a dentist, what would you be, and what lights you up?
Sonia: I had to think about this question a long time ago because my mom did not think I was going to get into dental school. She said, “You don't look that good on paper.” Thanks, Mom. She’s a truth teller. I wasn't that 4.0 student. I was a 3.6 or 3.7, which was great.
Anne: Still good.
Sonia: It's good, but I wasn't a candidate you look at on paper and say, “They're a shoo-in. Slam dunk.” But my mom did say, “If you can land an interview, you'll get in. But sweetheart, what is your plan B?” I thought about it and said, “I'm going to be a flight attendant because I love to travel so much.” So if I didn't get into dental school, I was going to be a flight attendant. That was my plan. That was before the time of blogging and all that stuff, so I think now I would’ve been a flight attendant and a travel blogger.
Anne: That would’ve been great.
Sonia: Also, I do love marketing, so I think I would market my travel blog and fly everywhere.
Anne: Okay. Hey, you're still young. That is all in front of you. We can pivot. I told you, I was 62 when I started DeW.
Sonia: I may transition into that when I'm done with clinical dentistry. It's very possible.
Anne: I really do believe life is long, and if you love what you do, you're going to keep doing it. That's something you could do until the end of time.
Sonia: There are so many ways to make money. I have a friend who’s a periodontist, and she actually quit being a periodontist. She is a travel blogger, and she has a family of five. They're a party of five, and they go around the world. She started it from nothing, and now it is a real-life business. You just have to start the thing, keep it going, and I promise you, in three years, that business will have legs.
Anne: That is amazing. Thank you. You only go around once, so do something that you love, that really lights you up and floats your boat. I think that's super, super cool.
Okay, I've got one more question. What is something you wish you did differently, and how could this impact who you are today? That's a tough one.
Sonia: No, this is really easy for me.
Anne: Is it? Good. I love that.
Sonia: Because I just experienced it. One of the reasons I took a month off was to go to this thing called Mindvalley University. Mindvalley, I don't know if anyone's ever heard of it, is a personal growth company. In 2018, I went to my first Mindvalley event in Bali, and while I was there, they said, “We're going to do Mindvalley University.”
What Mindvalley University is, for three weeks, they ask you and your family to come. They're basically a global campus. They rotate around the world. The first one I attended was in Croatia, and they've done it before in Barcelona. It's like camp, if I can simplify it. The kids have their camp during the day, and the adults have their camp during the day. You're listening to things that are kind of like TEDx-style talks.
Anne: Okay.
Sonia: This time, I listened to Marisa Peer, Dan Priestley, Jeffrey Allen, and a lot of these big names in the spiritual, manifesting, and personal development world. I took my family to this. My kids were learning things like gratitude, morning routine, manifestation, intuition, all that stuff. This is stuff that I didn't encounter until I was 40.
Now it is an integral part of my life, and it is what cured me of burnout. It is really what has healed me. Part of our trip was Estonia for Mindvalley University because that's their home base, and this was my third MVU in Tallinn, Estonia. It's one of our favorite places. My kids are now in the teen program. My son started when he was three. He's now 11, and my girls are now in the teen program. They've been doing this type of development since they were young.
One of my biggest gifts of this whole trip was sitting next to my two teenage daughters and listening to Marisa Peer talk about mindset. The fact that they are learning now, in their teenage years, what I didn't even know I needed to learn in my 40s. That feeling in me, just staring at them and being in awe that they were there. Maybe they didn't really understand it. It took me five years for a lot of things to actually absorb and fully embody and understand. But the fact that they're starting at 13 and 16 and starting to embody it at this age, that is the best thing I feel like I could have ever done for them, and I wish I knew to do it sooner.
Anne: Wow. Oh my gosh. Why didn't we do this podcast 30 years ago for me? I can't even imagine what a gift that is for your kids. I can relate to it because I was in my early 40s when I first knew that I could have a vision. I didn't even know any of that was actually real.
To live that out, have the mindset, and imagine that. I love your family, too, and I can't wait to follow the kids to see what they're going to do with their lives because you're setting them up for huge success. Mind, body, and spirit. That's really cool.
Who's the guy who started that? I know his name, but tell us. I forget.
Sonia: It's Vishen Lakhiani.
Anne: Okay. I think it's super cool that your husband has come with you on this journey.
Sonia: Actually, he's more of the Buddha than I am, so he's always been in this mindset. I had to catch up.
Anne: Really?
Sonia: Yeah. It's not like I had to drag him with me. We go hand in hand, shoulder to shoulder. It is a value of our family now to do this work.
Anne: That is so beautiful. What a beautiful life you're leading, and the future that is coming, even with this next year and the new MB2 series that you're doing with E-School, and then just watching the kids. I can't believe they're teenagers.
That says a lot about why they have a bake sale in our neighborhood. I have never seen entrepreneurs like your daughters. They do this beautiful bake sale. They make all the pastries, they sell them, and they have a charity that they give to. It is just incredible.
Sonia: I'm trying to think how old they were when they did their first one, but I made them think about their startup costs. I said, “Go do marketing research.” We went to Starbucks to see how much they were selling their brownies for. What was your Harris Teeter bill? What was the grocery bill? How much do you have to spend on packaging? How can you market? What was the impact of the location of the bake sale, and what could we do better next time? What are barriers to purchase?
People are on a walk. They don't have their credit card, so they took Venmo. I had a big conversation with them so that they would think about it holistically. That came from my entrepreneurial experience. But they made their signs. They set up the table. They baked everything from scratch. They took out a loan from Mom and Dad, went to the grocery store, bought their supplies, created the product, sold the product, had a profit, donated some to charity, and marketed the whole thing.
They knew, “Anne Duffy lives down the street. She knows the whole neighborhood. She's an influencer. She needs to tell everybody.” They learned all the pieces of creating something, bringing it to fruition, launching it, and completing it.
Anne: And completing it. Of course, number two and number three of your strengths are strategic. Good on you. You're a light in the world and a gift for all of us.
Sonia: Thank you.
Anne: Just a super mom, wife, daughter, and all of those. I know you’ve got your in-laws with you, too. Honestly, Sonia, you have to just keep doing you. We will keep doing us.
Tell me, how do we get in touch with you? Especially if you're listening and you want E-School, or you want to have a cup of coffee or a walk with Sonia Chopra, how do we get in touch?
Sonia: I hang out mostly on Instagram at DrSoniaChopra. That's Sonia with an I. If you want to see what I do, you can go to my website at drsoniachopra.com.
Anne: Oh my God, that is phenomenal. This has been so fun. I wish we could do this where we were walking because I'm sitting this whole time, and I know you are too, but we will get on the pavement soon.
Sonia: Let's let this temperature come down just a little bit, and then let's go for an early morning walk. Let's go. We are due, and I am free.
Anne: So am I. Always free for you. Thank you so much for joining me today. Again, ladies and gents, if you're listening to this, remember to keep doing you. Thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next time. Bye.
Sonia: Bye, everyone.
