Lisa: What is this fear costing me? When I really looked at it, it would have cost me my job because I would have left. It would have cost me my progression, the respect of my colleagues, and any opportunity for development within the company. More importantly than any of that, I would have sent such a powerful message to my subconscious that when things get tough, you just bail.
Anne: Hi, everybody. It's Anne Duffy, and welcome to the Just DeW It Podcast. I'm so happy you're here. I have a new international friend with me today, and she's so awesome. She joined DeW a couple of months ago, and then she shows up for the DeW Connects, she shows up for the learning crews, and she just shows up in general.
Anne: Let me tell you a little bit about her before we get started. Lisa Grogan is a leadership and dental business consultant, speaker, author, and trainer with two decades in the dental industry, managing both corporate and private clinics. She is qualified in psychology, executive leadership, neuroscience coaching, neurolinguistic programming, and neuro-hypnotherapy, and created the LENS Method, her framework for human and business performance. She now helps practice owners and individuals move confidently from feeling stuck to leading with clarity, whether that means growing a practice or finding their voice. Her top three strengths are learner, achiever, and strategic. Please help me welcome my new dear friend, Lisa Grogan. Hello, Lisa.
Lisa: Hello, Anne. An absolute pleasure to be here.
Anne: Oh, my gosh. It took us a while to get our time zones together because you are in Ireland, but you and I feel like we're right next to each other in Charlotte, North Carolina, which is wonderful for the way the world works now with Zoom and all those things. Tell me a little bit about how long you've been coaching now.
Lisa: Going on seven years now. It's such a beautiful space. I've definitely found my purpose in coaching.
Anne: I can tell. Even when you're on our DeW Connects, it feels like you are coaching people. It's just a natural quality that you have. With your strengths, learner, you are always learning. Always new things, and that makes so much sense with the neuroscience, neurolinguistic programming, and neuro-hypnotherapy. So you can hypnotize somebody, is that correct?
Lisa: Absolutely. I learned about it when I was doing my coaching, actually. I was talking to somebody whom I really respect. She was a coach herself, and then she went on to study hypnotherapy. She said, "Lisa, this just changes the game. It takes coaching to a whole new level." I didn't know much about it, and even when I went to do the course, I was like, "Is this a little woo or not?" Oh, my goodness, I was so wrong. I look at our brains like a computer, and with hypnotherapy, you get into the motherboard of the computer. You can take out any old, unhelpful viruses, like unhelpful beliefs we pick up about ourselves: "I'm not good at this. I'll never be good at that." You're able to get rid of those old things and put in nice new programming, which gets people to the root of the problem quickly and really helps them move through things so much faster. It's really two modalities that complement each other very well.
Anne: It's amazing. I'm actually a fan. I don't know if we ever talked about this, but I got hypnotized a couple of years ago. It was part of a program that I was in, and one of the gals there was a hypnotist. Is that what you call yourself?
Lisa: Hypnotherapist.
Anne: Yeah. It was during the pandemic, so I was lying on my bed with my computer, and I was like, "This is not going to work. Woo is my number one strength. This isn't going to work, but okay, I'll give you a chance." I had a breakthrough. It was really phenomenal, and I am all for that. I'm a true believer now in being able to bust through a limiting belief or a belief that doesn't ring true with the greatness we have inside of us that we need to get out. I love that you're an expert in that realm, and I feel like that is something that's not new age; it's kind of old, but actually coming back around.
Lisa: Definitely. We are bringing it back in. If I can share something slightly personal on that note, years ago, when I was in corporate, I did public speaking. I used to have a horrendous fear of public speaking, and I tried psychologists, coaches, hypnotherapists. I literally tried it all. When I was working with the hypnotherapist, he took me back to a time when I was 10, and there was a teacher in our school who wasn't a very nice person. She used to make me stand up for quite some time, as she did with other girls in the class, so people would be looking up at you. As an adult, I look back and think, "Oh, sure, it was just a thing. You go through a hard time in school." But that's a very adult way of looking at that situation. When I went to hypnotherapy, he was able to take me back to that time as a child, and the tears came. I was like, "Oh, my goodness, that wouldn't have come to me consciously as a thing." But because he was able to get into the motherboard, it uncovered this core where the fear came from. Once I had the awareness, I could do something about it. So the hypnotherapy hits personal to me as well.
Anne: So what did you do about it? I see you froze in front of 150 people, and you nearly walked away from your career over it. It sounds like this is the tie. What actually made you turn toward that fear instead of just managing around it?
Lisa: It was such a huge mountain for me to climb. It started in corporate. My first day, you won't believe this, was in Thailand. We were over in Thailand at a sales conference. My first day, I'm sitting in the front row like a Cheshire Cat, thinking, "This is amazing. I'm managing a company for Ireland. What an amazing opportunity." I looked up, and I saw the managers at my level. Thankfully, it was my first day, so I didn't have to present or anything, but I looked up at them, and it was like a lightning bolt came down. I was like, "Oh my God, I'm going to have to do what they're doing." Straightaway, I was like, "I'm going to leave this company." The fear just came, boom. I was like, "Oh my God, I'm going to have to leave." Then I sat with that over the few days because it really bothered me how much it affected me. I went from being elated over something to terror. I was like, "What is going on there?" I'm normally quite rational, but the whole thing around it was very irrational. I sat there, Anne, and I asked myself a very important question, and I'm going to put this question to anybody who's listening to this: when there is something going on for you and that fear shows up, the question to ask yourself is, "What is this fear costing me?"
Lisa: When I really looked at it, it would have cost me my job because I would have left. It would have cost me my progression, the respect of my colleagues, and any opportunity for development within the company. But more importantly than any of that, I would have sent such a powerful message to my subconscious that when things get tough, you just bail. You just go.
Anne: Mm.
Lisa: I was like, "That's not who I am. That's not who I've ever been. So this is going to be hard, but I need to figure out a path." Oh, my goodness, did I try everything. Literally counselors, psychologists, hypnotherapists, as I mentioned, public speaking courses. The funny thing, Anne, is every modality I went to for help, I have trained in. So I'm qualified in everything that I did. I don't do things by halves.
Lisa: For me, exposure therapy is that you have to find a safe way to do it. When I mentioned freezing in front of 150 people, I threw myself in the deep end. I tried to just do it, and I realized very quickly that the nervous system took over. This heat came up my body, this fog came down my head, and my thoughts went anywhere but in my head. I mumbled for about a minute, and all I remember is the looks of pity, just thinking, "Oh, that poor girl." So it didn't really help with the anxiety of what was happening. But looking back now, especially with my understanding of neuroscience, which is all about regulating the nervous system and helping people understand the mind-body connection, was just essential. I nearly feel like I had to go through that, and I had to live that experience to help people now going through the fear, whatever it is or whatever way it's showing up for them. I'm sure, Anne, you've met so many amazing entrepreneurs, especially in the DeW community, who know they have so much to give, but they can't even go on camera. They can't even show up online. So they're holding themselves back, and they're not able to reach the people they can help. Part of my mission now is to help people, not just with public speaking. It's about helping them find their voice and helping them speak up and be visible because they deserve to have a voice and deserve to be visible.
Anne: Oh my God. In this day and age, you have to be visible to get your message out because there's so much noise. You have to be authentic, and that is so hard to do. When I have to do a live video or something like that, I'll get on it, but I don't know if I like it. But it's worth it. That's what you have to decide: Is it worth it? The end result, what's going to happen if I don't do this, and just minimize the fear. You have to just say, "If not me, who?" and do it anyway. That's principle number two.
Lisa: Figure out what's it going to cost you. There's also another beautiful line that I live by: "The magic is on the other side of the work you are avoiding." It gets me through so much. Again, I've lived it. I probably wouldn't be talking to you now, Anne, or I probably wouldn't own my own business if I hadn't faced that fear way back then. The message is, the magic is on the other side of the work you're avoiding. It's just finding your path. It's totally possible for everyone.
Anne: That is so cool. We talked earlier, just before we got started, because I only had your top three strengths, which are, again, learner, achiever, and strategic. You were saying, "Oh, I took it so long ago. I don't know if that still rings true." But everything you're saying: you just keep learning. Of course, you took all the courses that you were in. Of course, you wanted to learn more about it, and you would not quit. You took what happened to you on stage in front of 150 people, and you used that in a strategic way to get where you are now. All of those are you living your strengths. Honestly, those are so strong, and I think that you're incredible. It's still all in front of you as young as you are and as devoted as you are to growth and success. I love that. Women listening right now are quietly avoiding the spotlight in their own businesses. What is the smallest step that you can actually ask her to take this week? Because we're going to have women listening to this. What would you recommend that they do? Just a small step.
Lisa: Have you heard of quantum leaping? I like people to think of that higher version of themselves. Who is that person without the fear, without the limitations, without the story? Because we all carry stories. It's not that they're not valid. If somebody has fear, hesitation, or imposter syndrome, we don't want to discredit what they're feeling. But our stories can keep us restricted, and sometimes we need to rewrite the script. If somebody's walking around and you know that you're capable of more, or you know that there's something holding you back, be careful for the little ones like, "I don't have the time to do this." If you consistently catch yourself saying, "I don't have the time," just dig a little bit deeper underneath that, because that's probably your brain trying to protect you from doing the hard thing, whatever it is. Just say, "Okay, if it's important enough to me, and I know what it's going to cost me now, and I know what's on the other side of it, it's just a matter of moving through the fear." And again, getting support. Reach out to somebody who's done it before, whatever it is. Seeking support is one of the big things. Ask for help. My goodness, we're so good at offering and giving help; sometimes we're not good at asking for it.
Anne: Yeah.
Lisa: That would be another big takeaway: ask for the help.
Anne: I love that because there's something on my plate right now that I was thinking about doing. Then I have to say, "I don't really want to do it," and then Carla, our director of ops, will say, "Anne, you have to do this." You've just given me permission to really think that through and take the courageous step because it is going to be work, it's going to be hard, and it's something that I think I need. But it's easier to just say, "Oh, I'll put it off." But then again, if not now, when? Especially when I'm in this season of my life, what would be holding me back? This has been really good for me, just hearing you speak today, Lisa. You're speaking to me along with everyone that's listening to us. Just take that small step. Sometimes we think it's a giant step, but in the smallness of it, it's basically signing up for it and then putting one foot in front of the other. It's not like you have to go from point A to Z. You go from A to B to Z to D. Again, you need a community. Thank you, DeW community. Call a DeW if you get stuck. Call a coach if you get stuck. There are so many resources here, especially when we connect with that other person and they can feel our anxiety. To your point, you had to go through something to actually feel what it feels like to not be able to move forward. Not only did you feel it personally, but you took the study for it. You know me, I'm just going to jump in. But that's why I love the fact that you actually learned it before you put your sign or your shingle out. You're like, "Look, I know this. I've been studying it."
Lisa: That's my inner nerd; my learning comes in. I have such a curious mind. I've always had a curious mind. People are like, "You're so present; you ask loads of questions." I'm like, "Because I genuinely want to know about people." I just love it. Really fascinating.
Anne: Well, learner is such a good quality because when you're a learner, and yes, you're number one, you love information. You keep getting it, but you are also very articulate in spilling it out and communicating it to somebody else. Because you learn it so well that you can actually see how you can communicate it so that it's received well. That's a good sign for a coach to have. But you've developed the LENS Method, and it's the L-E-N-S Method. How can it help individuals, and how did you come up with it?
Lisa: I'm kind of proud of this, if I'm honest, Anne. When I started doing coaching initially, I typically took, like every coach, a kind of 2D approach to working with somebody. So this is your goal. These are your action steps. Off you go. But what I was finding was happening, and funny enough, more so as time has gone on through the years, and I think the world is changing and has gotten a little bit crazy, so people are carrying a lot more than they used to. People weren't taking action. They were like, "Lisa, I know what I need to do. Why can't I do it?" I was like, "There's something. We need to be looking at deeper things here." I think that's where the hypnotherapy and the neuroscience and everything coaching feeds into this. The L is the logic. This is the goal. This is the steps. This is your knowledge. This is your skills. Let's just package that bit there. That's, if you ask me, the top of the iceberg, the nice 2D approach to coaching.
Lisa: The E is for emotion or energy, and that is the biology, like what's going on in our system? How are we showing up? How is our energy? What kind of energy are we showing up with to our businesses every day? The last couple of weeks, my energy, for absolutely no reason, was on the floor. Again, it sets me back into, "Oh my God, I know what I need to do. Why can't I take that step?" Now, because I have the awareness, I sit back and think, "Just be kind and have that bit of compassion. Take a bit of a rest. Have a few early nights. Look at your habits. Eat well. Just get back to what I call a place of power," where you're feeling strong, you're feeling grounded, your nervous system is calm, you feel regulated, and you find it easy to make decisions because you're coming at it from a nice place of strength. So the emotional and energy is really the biology that's happening in our system.
Lisa: Then the N is the neurological side of things. That is basically, what are people's thought patterns? What is keeping them stuck? How are they thinking? You can listen to someone's language. When I hear someone say, "Oh yeah, Lisa, I'm going to try that," try is a word of failure. So you can tune into what the subconscious is actually telling you, which is different often from the verbal narrative they'll have. So it's repeating that back to the client, and they're like, "Oh God, I didn't realize." I'm like, "Well, you said the word try. There's obviously a little block in there. Let's figure out what that block is so we can now turn that try into, 'I'm going to do it.'" So it's deep diving into their thought patterns and where they might be holding themselves back: unhelpful beliefs, limiting beliefs, all that kind of stuff.
Lisa: The last piece then is the social. What is somebody's support system? If they're in a team, maybe it's the leadership, maybe it's the culture, maybe it's family systems, that circle of influence that's around them. So these four elements really make up the human and how they're taking action and how they're showing up. I found working with people through these four phases just uncovers an awful lot for them. I feel like it's the whole piece, like a 4D approach to coaching as opposed to the traditional 2D.
Anne: Yes, I love that so much. First of all, I love the idea of the emotional, like you burning out and then really feeding your body. That is simple. That's not that hard. It's not necessarily easy, but it's pretty simple to understand what you're lacking. You need to sleep and all of those things. That's an interesting component I did not think of. Then putting that all together is a blueprint for success, I would say. It gives them a place to look and go, and they feel like that's going to happen. I feel like that's going to be achievable.
Lisa: Absolutely. It's just that extra layer of self-awareness because sometimes our head will say, "Lisa, push, push, push," or, "Go, go, go." But our bodies are like, "Oh my God, slow down. Stop. Breathe. Rest." Sometimes our body knows before our heads do. So it's tuning into, what do I need at a core level? I call it place of weakness versus a place of power. When you're tired, when you're unsure, then you start questioning yourself, then you feel very unsupported. You feel like you're stepping into that negative space. When you catch yourself in those patterns of feeling that way, you say, "I need to rest here," or, "I need to do something." We call them energy enablers, which is what we put in place, to bring them back to that place where they're more grounded and positive. Because it's very hard, especially as business owners, to make decisions when you're in a place of weakness. You're doubting yourself. You often will pick the road of least resistance, which is not always the right path for growing a business or stepping out of your comfort zone. So it's helping people get back into that grounded place of power, and then they just feel, "Yes, I'm confident and clear in what needs to be done, and I can take the action."
Anne: I can take the action. The social end of it, too, is really interesting that you talked about that, because I think sometimes we do need someone to tell us what they see in us when we're in those feelings. Like, "I see this. Come on, you can do it." You need your cheerleaders. You need your encouragers. Being an entrepreneur, as we've talked about often, it's a lonely space to be in. Very often, you're in your office and I'm in my office, and you can get into a little bit of a tailspin of, "This isn't working." I love that you're there to support somebody who really wants to do great things and sometimes just doesn't know how to release it. As we both know, everyone has a great story. Everybody has gifts. There's greatness in everyone, and you're there to pull it out of them. I love that you are in our organization of Dental Entrepreneur Woman right now. It's your wonderful contribution to all of us. So how do we get in touch with you? I know someone listening to this is stuck and needs a little help and loves the LENS Method, which I love. It's a complete system from beginning to end, top to bottom, to get you on the path of your own greatness. How do they get in touch with you?
Lisa: Sure. Take them back to self. I have two websites, just to complicate things. Lisa Grogan Coaching. Lisa, lisagrogan@dentalcoach.com is the easiest way. I have two Instagrams, of course, because one isn't hard enough to manage. I have the same name, and just Lisa Grogan on LinkedIn as well. So nice and easy.
Lisa: Even for the social aspect, I just add to that. That's one of the reasons why I joined you. As you said, it can be a lonely space on your own, and you came highly recommended by an Irish lady, funny enough. Oh, my goodness, what a gorgeous group of women. I've had women in that group reach out to me privately and say, "You were on a call, and I just want to say something." I am just blown away by the support. So if somebody is on this call from you and you're struggling, just reach out to somebody. The help is there, which is not easy to find, but that support system is there. Tap into that.
Anne: Tap into that. Women like you have walked through the door, and that's what's so beautiful. I'm so grateful for that and grateful for you. If you're listening to this, we're having a retreat in November. November 12th through 14th in Charlotte, North Carolina. We're going to bring Lisa across the pond, if you will. We want to get her here for that. Reach out to Lisa. We'll have that all in the show notes. But who's your avatar? A business? A dentist? A female dentist? Who is somebody that you and your experience have helped dramatically through your coaching?
Lisa: Really good question, Anne. I have kind of two sides here. For dental specifically, anybody who wants to grow a business or attract more of the high-value work, that's what I love to do: help them with all of that setup. But then there's the other side of it, which is really where the LENS Method fits in in many ways. Dentists can come to me. I had a dentist recently whose patients were getting quite upset with him because they were just irritated and tired, and we had to get him back to that place of power. Now he feels so much better in himself. He's like, "I want to do this course, and I want to do that course." So much comes in when you get the person back to feeling good in themselves. It just ripples. It has that ripple effect.
Lisa: The other side of the business, and again, it comes from the background that I mentioned at the beginning, is helping people find their voice, getting visible and finding their voice. If you're holding yourself back from getting visible online or want to do more public speaking, but the nervous system is just screaming, I love to help people with that, for sure, because I get it.
Anne: That is wonderful. You're helping all of us. You're helping all of us. I'm motivated now, so thanks for motivating me today. I hope to see you in November. And anyone that's listening, the most important thing, and we both know this, is to keep doing you. Thanks, everybody, for joining us. Lisa Grogan, thank you for joining me today. Maybe we'll see you on the road. All right, guys, take care.
Lisa: Really enjoyed it. Thanks, all.
